Untitled Document

[00:00:03] [Music] [00:00:08] Well, it's time to rejoice. They say [00:00:12] there is peace in the Middle East. The [00:00:13] bombs have stopped falling. The hostages [00:00:16] have been exchanged. And the politicians [00:00:18] are shaking hands for the cameras. But [00:00:21] tell me, how can there be peace without [00:00:24] justice? How can we move on? How can we [00:00:27] let bygones be bygones when one of the [00:00:30] worst genocides of modern times was just [00:00:33] livereamed before our eyes? Entire [00:00:36] families erased, journalists executed, [00:00:40] aid workers targeted, children starved, [00:00:43] and now as the world tries to move on, [00:00:46] the perpetrators walk free while [00:00:49] truthtellers are jailed. This is not [00:00:52] peace. This is impunity disguised as [00:00:55] diplomacy and accountability, real [00:00:58] accountability must begin now in the [00:01:00] HEG. President Donald Trump and the [00:01:02] corporate media want you to believe that [00:01:04] the Gaza ceasefire deal is the dawn of a [00:01:07] new era. We're told to celebrate the [00:01:09] images of the final 20 Israeli prisoners [00:01:12] being released. Always called hostages [00:01:15] in the media after 2 years of barbaric [00:01:18] Hamas captivity, they say. But wait, [00:01:21] even NBC admitted that Matan Argarist [00:01:25] was kidnapped from his tank. Kidnapped [00:01:28] from a tank. You can't call an armed [00:01:31] soldier operating a killing machine a [00:01:34] kidnap victim. That's called being a [00:01:37] captive of war. Still, Israeli crowds [00:01:41] fill city squares to celebrate their [00:01:43] release. While the same media that [00:01:46] plastered their faces everywhere barely [00:01:49] whispered that 2,000 Palestinian [00:01:53] political prisoners and hostages are [00:01:56] also being freed as part of the same [00:01:58] deal. 20 Israelis dominated global [00:02:02] headlines. 2,000 Palestinians are just a [00:02:06] footnote. That's not journalism. That's [00:02:09] manufactured consent for apartheid. More [00:02:12] than 1,700 of those freed Palestinians [00:02:16] were abducted from Gaz over the past two [00:02:19] years by the IDF. Many never even [00:02:23] charged without any crime. Yet there was [00:02:26] no worldwide outcry, no senators [00:02:29] demanding their release, no hashtags, no [00:02:33] candlelight vigils. Over 10,000 [00:02:36] Palestinians still rot in Israeli [00:02:39] prisons today, including community [00:02:42] leaders, students, elected officials, [00:02:46] 400 children, nearly half of those [00:02:50] people, without trial or conviction. And [00:02:54] Israel still refuses to return hundreds [00:02:57] of bodies of those it has killed. Why [00:03:01] keep their remains? What are they trying [00:03:04] to hide? What have they done to them? [00:03:08] Such is life under a genocidal apartheid [00:03:12] regime. And when the Israeli captives [00:03:15] returned home, they appeared wellfed and [00:03:18] in good spirits. But Palestinian [00:03:21] prisoners, many came back emaciated, [00:03:24] gaunt, trembling, visibly broken, like [00:03:27] survivors of a concentration camp. and [00:03:31] even their famil family's joy was [00:03:33] criminalized. When Palestinians gathered [00:03:36] outside of the Ofair prison near Ramla [00:03:38] to welcome their loved ones, the Israeli [00:03:41] military dropped warning leaflets, [00:03:43] threatening them, ordering the crowd to [00:03:45] disperse, then fired tear gas and rubber [00:03:49] bullets into them. Not a moment spared [00:03:52] to continue the trauma. Now imagine if [00:03:55] it was reversed. If Palestinian gunmen [00:03:58] open fire on Israelis welcoming home [00:04:00] prisoners, the world would completely [00:04:04] erupt. But when Israel does it, there's [00:04:07] complete silence. Such is life under a [00:04:10] genocidal apartheid regime. And for 2 [00:04:13] years, Israel's mighty military couldn't [00:04:18] subdue Gaza. a tiny strip of land under [00:04:21] siege for decades, cut off from food, [00:04:25] from water, from medicine, from the [00:04:27] entire world. And as the Alasam brigade [00:04:31] said, the enemy failed to retrieve its [00:04:34] captives through military pressure. [00:04:36] Despite its intelligence, superiority, [00:04:38] and overwhelming power, now it is forced [00:04:42] to recover them through a prisoner [00:04:43] exchange deal, just as the resistance [00:04:46] promised from the beginning. Even more [00:04:49] revealing, the ceasefire agreement [00:04:52] forces Israel to lift its blockade on [00:04:54] food and supplies into the same blockade [00:04:58] it spent years denying existed. We were [00:05:02] told it was a myth that Israel allows [00:05:05] aid in, but we all know the truth. And [00:05:09] yet, with the stroke of a pen, they [00:05:11] admitted it. Now Trump has flown in for [00:05:15] the cameras to claim credit for ending [00:05:17] the war. He stood before the Kineset, [00:05:20] smiling beside billionaire Israel [00:05:23] lobbyist Miriam Eden, [00:05:26] joking about her $60 billion fortune and [00:05:30] her late husband Sheldon Eden's power. [00:05:34] He even bragged that he once asked her, [00:05:38] "What do you love more, the United [00:05:40] States or Israel?" and she refused to [00:05:42] answer. If anyone else said that, they'd [00:05:46] be destroyed, fired, smeared, silenced. [00:05:49] But Trump, he just says that out loud. [00:05:53] And he flew into Cairo to meet President [00:05:57] Cece and finalized this so-called peace [00:06:00] plan. But this deal isn't peace. [00:06:04] When you are dealing with the [00:06:06] collaborators of the genocide, the [00:06:09] access of assistance, these are the [00:06:12] people that rubber stamped Israel's [00:06:15] theft, the normalization of genocide, [00:06:18] the annexation, the eraser of Palestine [00:06:22] from the map. And where are the Arab [00:06:25] leaders? The same ones who waved the [00:06:27] Palestinian flag in speeches but quietly [00:06:30] helped enable two years of slaughter. [00:06:34] They have disgraced their people and the [00:06:36] entire region. They created land [00:06:40] corridors for Israel so that Israel can [00:06:44] circumvent the Red Sea blockade and [00:06:46] receive their shipments in full. They [00:06:49] have collaborated with the occupier [00:06:51] while gaz burned. The blood is on their [00:06:55] hands, too. And for Trump, Gaza is not a [00:06:58] tragedy. It's a real estate opportunity. [00:07:01] He's already eyeing beachfront [00:07:03] developments on the rubble and the [00:07:06] skeletons of the world's largest open [00:07:09] air prison. Instead of sending [00:07:11] diplomats, he sends developers Jared [00:07:14] Kushner and Steve Witkoff to oversee [00:07:17] what's left of Gaz. They're joined by [00:07:20] Israeli officials expanding illegal [00:07:23] settlements and grabbing land in Gaz and [00:07:26] Syria alike. Beneath the ashes lie [00:07:30] billions in offshore gas reserves, and [00:07:35] they all want a piece of that cake. For [00:07:38] them, Gaza is just a gold mine. But for [00:07:42] us Palestinians, it's our home that has [00:07:46] now turned into ashes. But let's be [00:07:49] clear, this genocide didn't just expose [00:07:53] Israel's crimes. It exposed the entire [00:07:56] system that protects them. Our so-called [00:07:59] democracies proved how easily they can [00:08:02] become fascist when their empire is [00:08:05] threatened. They censored journalists, [00:08:08] deplatformed activists, criminalized [00:08:11] protest and called it security. Look at [00:08:14] Palestine action in the UK. Activists [00:08:17] who shut down weapons factories, [00:08:20] supplying Israel with the weapons and [00:08:23] the parts [00:08:25] so they can drop bombs on our children. [00:08:29] They're sitting in prison cells right [00:08:31] now for exposing and opposing genocide. [00:08:34] Meanwhile, the war criminals who armed [00:08:37] Israel, funded the bombs, and justified [00:08:40] the slaughter on TV, will they walk [00:08:43] free? This is the new reality. The [00:08:46] empire will jail you for resisting [00:08:48] genocide while rewarding those who [00:08:51] commit it. This is why accountability [00:08:54] matters. Because if we let this pass, if [00:08:56] we allow this genocide to fade into the [00:08:59] rear view mirror, we are saying do it [00:09:02] again. For 2 years, we witnessed [00:09:05] genocide live streamed on our phones. [00:09:08] And most of our politicians and pundits [00:09:10] cheered it on. They called the murder of [00:09:13] children self-defense. They called [00:09:15] starvation counterterrorism. They called [00:09:18] resistance [00:09:20] terror. Gaz has unmasked the empire, [00:09:23] completely lifting the veil. There are [00:09:27] no moral limits. It won't cross. No [00:09:31] crimes too horrific for it to justify. [00:09:34] No amount of blood too much for it to [00:09:36] wash its hands on. But also unmask [00:09:40] something else. Us. The people who [00:09:43] refuse to stay silent. Those who march, [00:09:46] who speak out, who disrupt, who [00:09:49] organize, who boycott, those who say not [00:09:53] in our name, not with our taxes, and not [00:09:57] ever again. This genocide must be [00:10:00] remembered not as an isolated atrocity [00:10:03] but as a warning and accountability must [00:10:06] not just come for the bombers but for [00:10:10] the banks the media and the politicians [00:10:13] who made it possible because until there [00:10:17] is justice until there is accountability [00:10:20] there will be no peace. I'm Manar Adi [00:10:25] and this is Behind the Headlines. [00:10:28] All right. Well, I'm excited to bring on [00:10:30] our first guest today, which is Aaron [00:10:32] Mate. He is an award-winning [00:10:34] investigative journalist at the Greyzone [00:10:36] and on Substack, and he's also the [00:10:38] co-host of Useful Idiots Podcast with [00:10:41] Katie Halper. Erin, thank you so much [00:10:43] for joining us today. [00:10:45] >> Manar, great to be with you. [00:10:48] >> Well, I want to first uh start by asking [00:10:50] you about this ceasefire deal. We've [00:10:52] seen Israel release almost 2,000 [00:10:54] Palestinians in exchange for 20 [00:10:56] Israelis. What's your reaction to the [00:10:59] news of this ceasefire? And do you think [00:11:01] that this represents a win for Israel or [00:11:04] Hamas? [00:11:08] Well, my I have a lot of thoughts. Look, [00:11:10] by definition, any end to the genocide, [00:11:13] if this is indeed what it is, and with [00:11:15] Israel, you never know because they have [00:11:16] a long record of violating every deal [00:11:18] that they enter into, whether it's in [00:11:20] Gaza or Lebanon or uh the West Bank. U [00:11:25] but if this is indeed an end to the [00:11:26] genocide, then that's by definition a [00:11:28] welcome development because what's been [00:11:30] happening to the people of Gaza for the [00:11:32] last two years is just unimaginable. I [00:11:35] can't even put it into words. So if that [00:11:38] phase of their torment is over, then [00:11:41] that's good. But aside from that, look, [00:11:43] none of the underlying issues are [00:11:45] addressed by this deal. It's simply an [00:11:48] exchange of hostages [00:11:51] uh at 20, as you said, Israelis and um [00:11:55] hundreds thousands of Palestinians. And [00:11:56] but of course, there are thousands more [00:11:58] Palestinian hostages still in Israeli [00:12:00] prisons. And meanwhile, the fundamental [00:12:02] issue of denying Palestinians their [00:12:04] basic rights, that remains unchanged. [00:12:07] And Trump has made no suggestion that [00:12:10] he's interested in dealing with that [00:12:11] because it's been bipartisan US policy [00:12:13] for decades now to back Israel and its [00:12:16] military occupation of the Palestinian [00:12:17] people, theft of their land, theft of [00:12:20] their resources, uh, and continued [00:12:22] ethnic cleansing, which began in 1948. [00:12:27] So, the deal does nothing to address [00:12:29] that. If you read the text of Trump's [00:12:30] so-called peace plan, there's one line [00:12:32] in there about how we recognize uh a [00:12:35] Palestinian state and self-determination [00:12:37] as the aspiration of the Palestinian [00:12:38] people, which is just such a completely [00:12:40] useless line. That's like saying to a [00:12:42] starving person who's asking you for [00:12:44] food, I recognize that you're hungry, [00:12:47] but I'm not going to offer you anything. [00:12:48] So that's essentially what the uh [00:12:51] Trump's so-called peace plan is when it [00:12:52] comes to Palestinians basic rights is [00:12:54] recognizing their aspiration for their [00:12:57] basic rights but continuing to deny them [00:12:59] those basic rights. Um as to whether as [00:13:03] to who this is a victory for. [00:13:06] Um well look the fact that Hamas wasn't [00:13:10] completely destroyed and remain [00:13:12] resilient after two years of genocide [00:13:14] you can call that a victory for Hamas uh [00:13:17] and a defeat for Israel. But look at the [00:13:18] cost. I mean, Gaza is completely [00:13:20] destroyed. And so, given that that was [00:13:23] Israel's overarching objective, which is [00:13:25] to, you know, destroy Gaza, make it [00:13:27] unlivable, and create the conditions for [00:13:30] expelling as many people as possible, [00:13:32] even though it hasn't achieved in 2 [00:13:34] years the full-blown ethnic cleansing [00:13:35] that it wanted. Uh, I think it's it's a [00:13:38] victory for Israel. Uh, what have we [00:13:40] really done to advance the ball for [00:13:41] Palestinian freedom? more people around [00:13:43] the world are aware of the evils of [00:13:46] Zionism and more people are disgusted by [00:13:49] Israel. So that certainly is a loss for [00:13:52] Israel. But in terms of Israel's [00:13:54] objectives, Israel's objectives are to [00:13:56] just completely erase the Palestinian [00:13:58] nation. And I think by destroying Gaza [00:14:02] and subjecting its people to a life of [00:14:07] um continued suffering and misery and [00:14:10] hopelessness. I think in that respect, [00:14:12] Israel is one. [00:14:15] And obviously Palestinians have dealt a [00:14:18] major blow in this genocide in terms of [00:14:21] like just casualties and starvation and [00:14:25] famine and this siege that Israel has uh [00:14:28] enforced on the Gaza Strip that has just [00:14:31] created so much human suffering and now [00:14:36] it's almost like these uh leaders [00:14:39] including President Trump and Netanyahu [00:14:41] want us to just kind of turn a blind eye [00:14:43] to their crimes against humanity. turn a [00:14:45] blind eye against this genocide and [00:14:47] everything that we just saw, the trauma [00:14:50] that we just witnessed as if it never [00:14:52] happened and just clap our hands and [00:14:54] move forward. How does that make you [00:14:56] feel? [00:14:57] >> Well, it's deeply upsetting as Israel's [00:15:01] existence always has been. I mean, you [00:15:03] go back to 1967 after Israel occupied [00:15:06] the West Bank and Gaza and someone like [00:15:09] Moshe Dian who was a top Israeli general [00:15:12] uh who was considered to be sympathetic [00:15:14] in the Israeli spectrum to the plight of [00:15:15] the Palestinians. He said basically our [00:15:17] policy for the West Bank will be you're [00:15:19] you talking about the Palestinians, you [00:15:21] will live like dogs and whoever doesn't [00:15:23] like it can leave. That's at the liberal [00:15:26] end of the Israeli spectrum. That that's [00:15:28] been the policy forever and that policy [00:15:30] endures today. is there's not a basic [00:15:32] recognition that the Palestinians have [00:15:34] rights. What's changed now, [00:15:35] unfortunately, is you have the regional [00:15:39] deterrence to Israel a lot weaker. [00:15:43] Uh, a lot of that comes from the dirty [00:15:45] war in Syria, which meant Press News was [00:15:48] one of the few outlet outlets to cover [00:15:50] accurately. The goal of the dirty war in [00:15:52] Syria was to uh destroy an Arab country [00:15:56] that was not in the block of states that [00:15:57] were sort of subservient to the US. [00:16:00] uh and to Israel uh and that was a part [00:16:03] of the axis that resists Israeli [00:16:05] aggression. Not that Syria in recent [00:16:07] years has been uh doing anything to [00:16:09] deter Israel actively, but in previous [00:16:12] years like in the 2006 Lebanon war when [00:16:14] Israel attacked Lebanon, Syria was a [00:16:17] critical landbridge uh by which [00:16:18] Hezbollah received arms from Iran. And [00:16:21] after then especially the Bush [00:16:23] administration uh ramped up its efforts [00:16:25] for regime change in Syria which [00:16:26] culminated in the in the dirty war that [00:16:28] began under Barack Obama in 2011. So [00:16:32] that had the impact not only of [00:16:33] destroying Syria but also bleeding uh [00:16:36] the real deterrence to Israeli [00:16:38] aggression in the region Iran and [00:16:39] Hezbollah which I think was also a main [00:16:41] goal of the dirty war. Even if they [00:16:43] couldn't re achieve regime change in [00:16:45] Syria, they could destroy it, steal its [00:16:47] resources via the US military [00:16:49] occupation, put it under brutal [00:16:50] sanctions, and also draw in Iran and [00:16:52] Hezbollah uh and bleed them, which is [00:16:55] exactly what happened. And then after [00:16:56] October 7th, Israel took advantage of [00:16:58] all that to take, uh its war of [00:17:01] aggression to both Lebanon and Iran. So [00:17:04] you have the main deterrence to Israel [00:17:06] weakened as a result of the legacy of [00:17:09] the dirty war and also Israel's [00:17:11] brutality and aggression since October [00:17:13] 7th. And then you have meanwhile the uh [00:17:16] Gulf monarchies Turkey who all [00:17:19] participated in the dirty war in Syria [00:17:21] uh who you know speak words in support [00:17:24] of Palestinian rights. But what have [00:17:26] they actually done? And in fact what one [00:17:28] of the things they've done is um [00:17:30] cooperate with the Israeli military. [00:17:32] There was just a report in the [00:17:32] Washington Post saying that throughout [00:17:34] the genocide while states like Qatar and [00:17:36] Saudi Arabia were denouncing Israel. [00:17:38] They were meeting with the Israeli [00:17:40] military privately to coordinate against [00:17:42] Iran. So you have um Israeli US [00:17:47] hijgemony increasing these last two [00:17:50] years of genocide. You also have the [00:17:52] Gulf monarchies um being more [00:17:56] collaborative with Israel and the US and [00:17:58] in the process even dropping their [00:18:01] previous stances that at least defended [00:18:03] Palestinians absolute minimum rights. [00:18:05] Like for a long time there's been a [00:18:07] global consensus which even at times [00:18:09] Hamas has accepted and I know it's not [00:18:12] very popular for people who understand [00:18:14] the realities of Israel and the evils of [00:18:16] Zionism. Uh but there has been a [00:18:19] consensus that Palestine should at least [00:18:20] have a state in 22% of their stolen [00:18:24] homeland. The PLO accepted that. Hamas [00:18:27] leaders accepted that. Iran accepted [00:18:29] that. And the entire Arab League [00:18:30] accepted that. In 2002, they made a [00:18:33] peace offer to Israel for full [00:18:35] normalization if it gave the [00:18:37] Palestinians a state and just 22% of [00:18:39] their stolen homeland, the West Bank, [00:18:41] Gaza, East Jerusalem. Now, if you care [00:18:43] about equality and freedom, it's still [00:18:45] an unjust solution because it [00:18:47] perpetuates this Jewish supremacist [00:18:49] state that stole Palestinians land, but [00:18:51] it's also the global consensus and a [00:18:53] recognition of the best, at least [00:18:56] currently, the best possibly realistic [00:18:58] scenario. So, that's why it was offered [00:19:00] to Israel. And now the Arab states don't [00:19:02] even offer that. They don't even offer [00:19:04] that massive compromise that [00:19:06] Palestinians previously accepted, which [00:19:08] speaks to how Israeli US power has been [00:19:11] emboldened uh in recent years by this [00:19:13] genocide. [00:19:15] >> I mean, we saw all of these so-called [00:19:17] access of assistance nations uh meeting [00:19:19] in Sharmash yesterday with Donald Trump [00:19:21] and you know, we called it what it is. [00:19:24] This was a meeting of the collaborators [00:19:26] of the genocide, not a meeting for [00:19:28] peace. And of course, uh, now we have [00:19:31] leading the negotiations for the US. [00:19:33] They were not diplomats, but real estate [00:19:35] developers, including Donald Trump's [00:19:37] son-in-law, Jared Kushner, uh, who last [00:19:40] year noted that waterfront property [00:19:42] could be very valuable in Gaza. So, you [00:19:45] recently described Kushner as a [00:19:47] perpetual winner of the world's most [00:19:49] genocidal bar mitzvah speech. What's [00:19:52] your take on the Trump administration in [00:19:54] all of this and their plans to turn Gaza [00:19:57] into a real estate front property? [00:20:01] >> Well, the line about, you know, Jared [00:20:02] Kushner, you know, giving a perpetual uh [00:20:05] genocidal bar mitzvah speech is just [00:20:07] like he sounds like he's giving a bar [00:20:08] mitzvah speech. Like it reminds me of [00:20:10] the bar mitzvah speeches I used to hear [00:20:11] when I had to go to bar mitzvah growing [00:20:13] up. Um, so that's what just what I hear [00:20:16] in Jared Kushner. And yeah, Jared [00:20:17] Kushner and let's call them what they [00:20:19] are. They aren't just real estate [00:20:20] developers. [00:20:21] It's easy for It's easier for me to say [00:20:23] this because I'm Jewish. They're Jewish [00:20:25] real estate developers and they're [00:20:27] avowed Zionists. Both Jared Kusher and [00:20:29] Steve Wickoff. Steve Wickoff supposed to [00:20:31] be Trump's top Middle East peace envoy. [00:20:34] A few months ago, he spoke at a [00:20:36] fundraiser for a anti-Palestinian [00:20:39] pro-Israel group. Uh and in the audience [00:20:43] was a former chief of MSAD. Okay. So, [00:20:46] Steve Wickoff's speaking and it's at a [00:20:48] certain point he stops his prepared [00:20:49] marks. He goes, "Oh my god, I have to [00:20:52] stop for a second. My Jewish mother [00:20:54] would be so proud of me. The former [00:20:55] chief of MSAD just clapped for me." So [00:20:57] he was like all emotional that a former [00:20:59] Israeli spy chief just clapped for him. [00:21:01] So these are the people who are [00:21:03] so-called uh who are leading Trump's [00:21:05] so-called peace efforts like people who [00:21:07] get vermpt at uh Israeli spy chiefs [00:21:10] clapping for them and people who are [00:21:12] avowed Zionists who want to turn Gaza [00:21:14] into beachfront property for themselves [00:21:16] and their Zionist friends. So, it's a [00:21:19] farce and um it's just such an [00:21:23] indictment of the Biden administration [00:21:25] that even these people that even these [00:21:28] um avowed Zionists who don't care about [00:21:30] Palestines whatsoever that even for them [00:21:34] uh this genocide went on for too long [00:21:35] and they finally told Netanyao to knock [00:21:37] it off. Biden could have had this exact [00:21:39] same deal from the start. You know, [00:21:41] right after October 7th, Hamas offered [00:21:43] Israel to free all the civilian captives [00:21:45] that it took if Israel didn't attack [00:21:47] Gaza. Israel didn't care because it [00:21:49] seized the opportunity to fulfill its [00:21:52] long-term objective of destroying Gaza [00:21:54] and pushing as many people out uh into [00:21:57] exile um on top of the original exile of [00:22:00] the Nagba where you know which is where [00:22:03] most Palestinians in Gaza come from [00:22:04] because most Palestines in Gaza are [00:22:06] either refugees or the descendants of [00:22:08] refugees and some of the areas that were [00:22:11] attacked in the October 7th operation [00:22:13] were former Palestinian villages that [00:22:15] were stolen from the people who now live [00:22:17] in Gaza and their uh [00:22:20] and um and their families. So um that's [00:22:24] who we have leading diplomacy for Trump, [00:22:27] a vowed Zionist who want to just turn [00:22:29] Gaza into a place where they can make [00:22:30] more money. [00:22:32] >> And you mentioned that the Biden [00:22:33] administration could have struck this [00:22:35] deal at any moment when he was [00:22:37] president. And we just had Camala Harris [00:22:40] tweet out so proudly like she was [00:22:42] bragging that, you know, Trump shouldn't [00:22:44] really get all the credit for making [00:22:46] this so-called peace plan. It was really [00:22:48] her and Biden that brought most of the [00:22:51] peace to Gaza. What are your thoughts on [00:22:54] that? [00:22:56] I mean, uh, to me, the most interesting [00:22:58] aspect of the Democrats, like the Biden [00:23:01] camp, is that their, um, cowardice [00:23:06] on the issue of Israel Palestine and [00:23:08] their just refusal to take on the Israel [00:23:11] lobby and to adopt like any minimal [00:23:14] recognition of Palestinian rights like [00:23:17] that subservience to Israel, it [00:23:20] supersedes even their desire for power [00:23:22] like to be in office because if KL [00:23:24] everyone Everyone knows this. If KL had [00:23:27] just even slightly distanced herself [00:23:29] from Biden on the issue of the Gaza [00:23:31] genocide, she would have radically [00:23:33] improved her chances of winning [00:23:35] radically. And it was such an easy [00:23:37] political thing to do. I mean, forget [00:23:38] morals for a second cuz we can't expect [00:23:41] politicians to have that. But just [00:23:42] thinking like strategically from like [00:23:44] the idea of like a coldblooded [00:23:46] Washington beltway pragmatist, you have [00:23:49] polls showing that the Democratic base [00:23:51] is like revolted by Biden's policy on [00:23:55] Gaza and all they want is for some like [00:23:59] minimal break from Kl Harris. Even just [00:24:01] even if it wasn't even sincere just [00:24:03] saying it, right? But she wouldn't do [00:24:05] it. And why? Because I guess like the [00:24:08] hatred of Palestinians, their [00:24:10] dehumanization, and like the veneration [00:24:12] of Israel as our ally and blah blah [00:24:14] blah, it's so embedded in US [00:24:16] establishment culture that even someone [00:24:19] um trying to win the presidency was not [00:24:23] willing to break from Israel and and and [00:24:26] break from Biden's slavish support for [00:24:28] Israel. So, it just speaks to the [00:24:29] absolute anti-Palestinian fanaticism we [00:24:31] have embedded into our political culture [00:24:33] where people would rather serve Israel [00:24:35] than even win an election. It it's [00:24:37] really unbelievable. Uh, and it speaks [00:24:39] to just years and years of propaganda [00:24:41] and the power that the Israel lobby has, [00:24:44] not just in Washington, but in all [00:24:45] aspects of society. Because say you're [00:24:47] Kla Harris and like you're thinking [00:24:49] about your post uh um politics career, [00:24:53] you know, because these people get book [00:24:54] deals and speaking tours, you know, Kla [00:24:56] Harris probably knows subconsciously [00:24:57] that if she speaks out for Palestine in [00:25:00] some like just prefuncter way, like the [00:25:02] most like minimal, like letting a [00:25:04] Palestinian speaker who wants to endorse [00:25:06] her to speak at the DNC convention, she [00:25:09] might be thinking about, well, if I do [00:25:10] that, I might not get a lucrative [00:25:12] speaking gig or a book deal. You know, [00:25:14] these things have an impact on these [00:25:15] people who aren't just thinking about [00:25:16] politics or thinking about their [00:25:18] position of power within the US [00:25:20] establishment. And so, they'd rather [00:25:24] sell out their own political chances [00:25:26] than uh acknowledge Palestinian [00:25:29] suffering and do something a little [00:25:30] differently than what Biden did. And [00:25:32] instead, you know, we got people like [00:25:33] AOC uh going up and saying that Kla [00:25:36] Harris is working tirelessly for a [00:25:38] ceasefire, even though it wasn't true. [00:25:40] And she could have lied and said Kl [00:25:42] Harris will work tirelessly for a [00:25:43] ceasefire which again would be a lie. [00:25:45] But at least it wouldn't be [00:25:46] demonstrabably false because that would [00:25:48] be aspirational sometime in the future. [00:25:50] But they insulted all of us and they [00:25:52] made it impossible to vote for them. And [00:25:54] I say this I mean listen I'm in the [00:25:55] minority I think in my camp when it [00:25:59] comes to like you know like media [00:26:00] circles. I actually believe in lesser [00:26:02] evil voting. Um, I'd rather have a [00:26:04] president that doesn't cut Medicaid for [00:26:06] low-income people uh and uh give even [00:26:10] bigger tax breaks to the ultra wealthy. [00:26:13] But Democrats made it absolutely [00:26:15] impossible to uh adopt the lesser evil [00:26:18] strategy because they actually showed on [00:26:21] the issue on the issue of the Gaza [00:26:22] genocide that they were the bigger evil [00:26:24] given that they let the genocide go on [00:26:26] for uh as long as they did. They refused [00:26:29] to stop it and they seated that lane to [00:26:30] Trump who finally ended it. [00:26:32] They basically set it all up for Trump [00:26:34] to continue the genocide. You have no [00:26:36] doubt. [00:26:37] >> So in the last 24 hours, dozens of world [00:26:40] leaders have met in Shashik, Egypt to [00:26:43] plan the future for Palestine as if it's [00:26:45] their role to decide our future as [00:26:48] Palestinians. Is anything good going to [00:26:50] come out of this US-led summit? What do [00:26:52] you think? [00:26:54] I don't see anything good coming out of [00:26:56] this except for an end to the genocide [00:26:57] which again is something to welcome but [00:27:00] we can't fool ourselves into thinking [00:27:01] that there's uh any um steps towards [00:27:06] justice minimal Palestinian rights. [00:27:09] There's just none of that. Um the Gulf [00:27:12] States have long seen Palestinians as [00:27:13] kind of a nuisance [00:27:15] and they don't offer them anything. that [00:27:17] are just kind of a distraction. And [00:27:19] they're going along with this Trump [00:27:21] process of the so-called Abraham [00:27:22] Accords, which is just a way for Israel [00:27:24] to normalize with its neighbors while [00:27:25] offering the Palestinians absolutely [00:27:27] nothing. And all they're willing to say [00:27:30] is that there should be a pathway to a [00:27:31] Palestinian state, which is just such a [00:27:34] meaningless term. I mean, either there's [00:27:35] a Palestinian state or there isn't. A [00:27:37] pathway, uh, that kind of language is [00:27:39] just an excuse to put Palestinians on a [00:27:41] road to nowhere. That's what a pathway [00:27:43] means. Uh, it's somewhere far off in the [00:27:45] future. We just have to get there. No, [00:27:47] if you want to give Palestinians a [00:27:48] state, then the answer is very obvious. [00:27:50] Uproot all the illegal settlers in the [00:27:51] occupied West Bank. All of them. They [00:27:53] have no right to be there. Uh, and give [00:27:55] Palestinians the absolute minimum. And [00:27:58] of course, they deserve their entire [00:28:00] homeland back, but [00:28:03] the problem there is Israel's nuclear [00:28:04] weapons. And I just don't see the [00:28:06] immediate path to achieving that. So, at [00:28:07] the very minimum, give Palestinians what [00:28:10] their leaders have already accepted, a [00:28:11] state 22% of their stolen homeland. Uh [00:28:13] but of course that's not even in the [00:28:15] conversation and as I said earlier the [00:28:18] Arab League has stopped talking about [00:28:20] that and and you can see just how [00:28:23] determined [00:28:25] all these leaders are to crush Palestine [00:28:27] self-intermination by the refusal to [00:28:29] free Marwan Barguti who everybody knows [00:28:32] is the most popular political leader in [00:28:34] Palestine. If there were elections if [00:28:36] Israel allowed elections uh he would [00:28:38] win. He's not even from Hamas. He can't [00:28:41] even use the Hamas canard. Um, he has [00:28:44] advocated in the past nonviolence. He [00:28:47] ticks all the boxes that like Western [00:28:48] liberals claim to support when it comes [00:28:50] to Palestine. Not that he should have to [00:28:52] tick all those boxes. What I'm saying is [00:28:54] from the point of view of their facious [00:28:56] arguments. Uh, they have none to make uh [00:28:58] because he's a popular leader with [00:29:01] legitimacy and he's not even from Hamas, [00:29:03] which you know, everyone insists can't [00:29:05] rule Gaza anymore. And in fact, Hamas [00:29:06] says we don't even want to rule Gaza [00:29:08] anymore. So that's not even an issue. [00:29:09] So, Israel won't free him. The [00:29:11] Palestinian Authority, it's my sense [00:29:13] they've kind of abandoned him because [00:29:14] they see him as a threat to themselves [00:29:16] as well because who are they? They're a [00:29:19] corrupt collaborationist authority. And [00:29:22] Hamas, to their credit, tried to get him [00:29:25] freed. He was one of the people at the [00:29:26] top of their list. I think that was the [00:29:28] major goal of October 7th, you know, um [00:29:31] freeing a Palestinian political leader [00:29:34] who could unite the Palestinian people, [00:29:35] unite the different factions and have [00:29:37] popular legitimacy. Um which is, you [00:29:40] know, contrary to all the propaganda [00:29:42] that Hamas has wanted to go in and kill [00:29:43] Israeli civilians. No, they were trying [00:29:45] to do the only thing that they felt they [00:29:47] had left, which is to create leverage [00:29:49] for themselves after having none. after [00:29:51] trying nonviolent protest, after trying [00:29:53] to accept a Palestinian state in just [00:29:56] 22% of their historic homeland, um after [00:29:59] being put under siege when they won [00:30:00] elections. So, this was their next last [00:30:04] gasp is to try to free a Palestinian [00:30:07] political leader like Marwan Barguti who [00:30:08] could actually unite the Palestinian [00:30:09] people and and be credible. So, you you [00:30:12] can see in the refusal to release Marwan [00:30:13] Barguti by Israel that there's just this [00:30:16] continued determination to crush the [00:30:18] Palestinian struggle for freedom. And [00:30:20] unfortunately, you have more states in [00:30:23] the region now that are acquiescing to [00:30:26] that. And so it's very ominous. [00:30:29] >> Absolutely. And what's even more ominous [00:30:31] is uh how this genocide has completely [00:30:34] transformed or maybe even lifted the [00:30:37] veil on just this uh Israeli takeover of [00:30:41] our corporate media and political [00:30:43] system. I mean, on the home front, we [00:30:44] have pro-Israel multi-billionaires like [00:30:47] the Ellison's buying CBS and possibly [00:30:50] Tik Tok that's coming up here very soon. [00:30:52] Um, and installing Barry Wise as [00:30:55] editor-inchief of CBS. The Financial [00:30:58] Times has reported that it was [00:30:59] explicitly her pro-Israel views that got [00:31:03] her the job. So, what have you made of [00:31:05] this hire, and what does this say about [00:31:07] the state of modern journalism today? [00:31:10] You know, I'm a fan of comedy. And so my [00:31:13] problem is I love comedy so much that in [00:31:16] thinking about Barry Weiss being [00:31:18] installed at the head of CBS News, I [00:31:19] just I like the humor of it just takes [00:31:22] over because to me it's hilarious. This [00:31:25] like unqualified [00:31:27] u opinion columnist who's made a career [00:31:30] out of like being an activist for Israel [00:31:31] with no journalism experience whatsoever [00:31:34] with founding an outlet that's like just [00:31:36] such a transparent joke. one of their [00:31:38] biggest stories was trying to deny the [00:31:39] famine in Gaza uh by making the argument [00:31:43] that because some of the famine-stricken [00:31:46] kids had pre-existing conditions and [00:31:48] it's not really a famine but of course [00:31:51] the fact that suffering uh you know um [00:31:55] medically compromised people experience [00:31:58] starvation [00:31:59] uh is of course of that that's going to [00:32:02] happen when you have a famine is like [00:32:03] the most vulnerable people are going to [00:32:04] suffer first and that's just like you So [00:32:07] anyway, her being installed to CBS News [00:32:09] and like imagine being a CBS News [00:32:11] employee who like take tries to take [00:32:13] journalism seriously and all of a sudden [00:32:15] your new boss is someone with no [00:32:17] journalism experience who's there cuz [00:32:18] she's a pro-Israel activist and it's [00:32:20] just like, hey, I'm your boss now. It's [00:32:22] it's like a it's a bad comedy. Um, so [00:32:26] it's funny and it does lift the mascot [00:32:29] off of, you know, Zionist control of our [00:32:31] media. uh along with the fact that you [00:32:33] know Tik Tok has been taken over uh by [00:32:36] the same forces that are that installed [00:32:38] Barry Weiss at CBS News because as US [00:32:41] politicians from Mitt Romney to Anthony [00:32:43] Blinkin openly admitted the kids were [00:32:45] seeing too much footage of dead babies [00:32:49] in Gaza and they were mad about it. So [00:32:51] we therefore we have to shut Tik Tok [00:32:52] down. Um so the mask is off. It's funny [00:32:57] but it's also terrifying. [00:32:59] It speaks to the this continued erosion [00:33:02] of our freedom, of our, you know, a a [00:33:05] press that's actually doing its job. And [00:33:09] um the the the upside is that nobody [00:33:12] trusts these institutions anymore. And [00:33:14] do you think Barry Weiss is going to [00:33:16] help the for the fortunes of CBS News? I [00:33:18] feel bad for its employees, but given [00:33:21] that CBS News is a part of a propaganda [00:33:23] system that that overall indoctrinates [00:33:26] people on core issues of foreign policy, [00:33:28] especially of US hijgemony, then you [00:33:31] know, maybe Barry Weiss is by maybe [00:33:34] Barry Weiss by heading CBS News is doing [00:33:36] us all a favor by just exposing what a [00:33:38] complete scam our so-called free press [00:33:40] is. Well, a recent poll showed that what [00:33:43] trust in American media is at like the [00:33:45] lowest point it's ever been in like [00:33:47] recent history. I think the number was [00:33:49] like 25% or something like that. And [00:33:52] makes me wonder who are these 25% [00:33:54] individuals? I mean, I would think it's [00:33:56] like this remaining Christian Zionist uh [00:33:59] supporters supporters of Israel. And so [00:34:02] uh she will definitely keep them [00:34:03] entertained. Um, so for my final [00:34:06] question for you, Erin, in recent years, [00:34:08] we've seen Twitter being purchased by [00:34:11] the stridently pro-Israel Republican [00:34:14] Elon Musk. We've seen Jeff Bezos tell [00:34:17] his staff at the Washington Washington [00:34:18] Post that critiquing capitalism and the [00:34:21] US-led order is explicitly barred. And [00:34:24] we have uh we're seeing now the force [00:34:27] sale of Tik Tok to Larry Ellison, who is [00:34:30] the Israeli military's largest [00:34:32] international funer. Is there any hope [00:34:34] in this media landscape as an [00:34:37] independent journalist yourself who [00:34:38] covers the forever war machine? And [00:34:41] where can people turn to to get the [00:34:43] truth? [00:34:45] >> Well, listen, uh, you know, one result [00:34:48] of, uh, the recent Trump period is a [00:34:52] complete collapse in trust in corporate [00:34:54] media. And you know, part of that is for [00:34:58] unfortunate reasons like the sort of [00:35:00] like the Trump mythology and the cultish [00:35:02] aspects of MAGA just refusing to have [00:35:05] any criticism of dear leader, right? [00:35:07] That's one uh reason for the decline of [00:35:11] trust in corporate media, which is not a [00:35:12] thing to welcome. But another reason is [00:35:14] totally legitimate, which is that the [00:35:17] media did act in a deceptive way and on [00:35:20] so many issues related to Trump. I mean, [00:35:22] the most I think obvious example and the [00:35:24] one I spent a lot of time on is Russia [00:35:26] Gate. The one of the dumbest conspiracy [00:35:28] theories of all time, the fact that the [00:35:30] idea that Trump is a Russian agent and [00:35:32] he's compromised by the Kremlin and [00:35:34] Russian oligarchs and Russia waged this [00:35:36] massive interference campaign to [00:35:37] brainwash Americans. It was a complete [00:35:40] scam on so many different levels. And by [00:35:42] the way, you know, since we're talking [00:35:44] about the Gaza genocide, [00:35:46] you you saw the clip, I'm sure, of Trump [00:35:48] going to uh the Israeli Parliament and [00:35:50] like basically again admitting that he [00:35:52] did that he did the bidding of Israel [00:35:54] first oligarchs, Miriam and Sheldon [00:35:56] Adlesen. He reminded everyone that he [00:35:58] moved the US embassy to Jerusalem for [00:36:00] them that he basically that he does [00:36:02] their bidding. And compare that to all [00:36:04] the time and energy to how much time was [00:36:07] wasted going down this rabbit hole of [00:36:10] like the fictional Russian oligarchs [00:36:12] controlling Trump and the fictional [00:36:14] Kremlin miners controlling Trump. Um, do [00:36:17] any of these people who fear mongered [00:36:18] about so-called Russian interference [00:36:20] have anything to say about Trump's open [00:36:23] admission of being uh of doing the [00:36:26] bidding of Israel oligarchs under [00:36:28] Israeli influence? No, because Russia [00:36:30] Gate was just a scam. And so, you know, [00:36:33] for good reason, people don't trust the [00:36:34] media because everyone in the media, [00:36:36] including, I'm sorry to say, some of our [00:36:38] independent media colleagues went along [00:36:39] with it. Um, so in that respect, there [00:36:42] are aspects of the decline of trust in [00:36:43] corporate media that are positive. But [00:36:45] there's also a cultish MAGA element here [00:36:48] where there's just no criticism [00:36:50] tolerated of the leader. And that's a [00:36:52] problem. And another problem is the [00:36:55] spaces we're in, man. I mean, I think M [00:36:58] press is a rare exception that doesn't [00:37:00] get duped by [00:37:03] the same forces uh that uh fool us on so [00:37:07] many issues. Like so for example, you [00:37:09] take an issue like the Gaza genocide [00:37:11] that's not controversial with an [00:37:12] independent media. No one supports [00:37:15] Israel. Initially, there were some [00:37:17] people who would parrot some Israeli [00:37:18] propaganda like the rape hoax. They got [00:37:21] duped by that. But for the most part, I [00:37:22] think independent media coverage is [00:37:24] really good. You look at a show like [00:37:25] Democracy Now where I used to work. They [00:37:27] do great coverage of Gaza. They [00:37:29] interview great people. Although I have [00:37:31] to say they also boycott certain great [00:37:33] guests like Norman Finkelstein who [00:37:34] hasn't been on throughout the entire [00:37:36] Gaza genocide, but that's another story. [00:37:38] Um, but on other issues like the Ukraine [00:37:40] proxy war, like Syria, like Russia gate, [00:37:43] the stories that require more critical [00:37:45] thinking and more intellectual [00:37:46] self-defense from our very sophisticated [00:37:49] propaganda system there. you know, some [00:37:52] of our colleagues have done a terrible [00:37:54] job and they've been duped by the same [00:37:56] propaganda that they debunk on other [00:37:58] issues. So, uh, that's something to [00:38:01] address. And for people working in [00:38:03] independent media, there's no shortage [00:38:05] of opportunities, uh, to be on the right [00:38:07] side, to be on the side of truth. Uh, [00:38:10] but it's hard because things are [00:38:11] increasingly fragmented. People's [00:38:12] attention is pulled in so many different [00:38:14] ways. It's hard to, you know, get people [00:38:16] to read something uh these days because [00:38:19] there's just so many choices on offer. [00:38:21] But as always, you know, so long as we [00:38:23] have um some semblance of freedom, which [00:38:25] we do have here, uh there are [00:38:27] opportunities for people telling the [00:38:29] truth. [00:38:30] >> Absolutely. And we thank you and commend [00:38:31] you for challenging the status quo with [00:38:33] your reporting at the Grey Zone and [00:38:35] Substack and your show with Katie [00:38:36] Halper. And uh hopefully we'll have you [00:38:38] on again, Erin Mate. Thank you so much, [00:38:41] >> Manar. Uh thank you for having me on. [00:38:43] Thank you for all you do at Men Press [00:38:45] and I urge anyone uh with the means to [00:38:49] uh support your outlet which I think [00:38:50] there's really important journalism that [00:38:52] very few other people including in the [00:38:53] independent media space are doing. So [00:38:55] it's an honor to join you and thank you. [00:38:57] >> Oh, thank you Aaron. Really appreciate [00:38:59] that.