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[00:00:07] [music] [00:00:08] Even as the US Empire's gaze turns [00:00:11] towards Venezuela, [music] it continues [00:00:13] to meddle in Africa. Foreign [00:00:15] intervention is fueling a bitter civil [00:00:17] war inside of Sudan right now. And the [00:00:20] Trump administration is pushing a line [00:00:22] about a genocide against Christians in [00:00:24] Nigeria. With an eye on military [00:00:27] intervention and across the Sahel [00:00:29] region, anti-imperialist forces continue [00:00:32] to rise and organize, dreaming of a [00:00:35] united pan-African continent that will [00:00:38] resist US imperialism and reject Israeli [00:00:41] colonization. Here to talk to me more [00:00:44] about this is Ahmed Kabalo. He is a [00:00:47] British Sudin journalist and the CEO and [00:00:51] co-founder of African Stream and of [00:00:53] course a friend of Mitress News. Um [00:00:56] African Stream, as many of you know, was [00:00:59] a media outlet shut down by the US [00:01:01] government for publishing inconvenient [00:01:04] truths. Welcome to the show, Ahmed. [00:01:07] >> Thank you, Mana. And I'm so glad that [00:01:09] you guys are still on Instagram. You [00:01:13] gave us all a scare when the heat [00:01:16] took you down, but luckily they put you [00:01:18] straight back up. [00:01:20] >> Yeah, the timing was very interesting [00:01:21] because I had just returned from Silicon [00:01:23] Valley when we got um taken down on [00:01:26] Instagram talking about, you know, [00:01:27] USIsraeli [00:01:29] um unit 8200 inside of Silicon Valley. [00:01:33] So, but we're back and we're here and we [00:01:36] will continue to talk about the forever [00:01:38] war machine. I think a lot of people's [00:01:40] eyes right now are on three different [00:01:43] places. One of them, of course, is [00:01:45] Venezuela with the United States [00:01:47] shutting down the airspace there. But [00:01:50] then what has really captured the hearts [00:01:52] and minds of the globe has been this [00:01:55] humanitarian crisis inside of Sud Sudan, [00:01:58] which is such a tragedy. But I think a [00:02:00] lot of people forget or might not even [00:02:02] know just how much of that is the result [00:02:07] of US imperialism for decades to turn [00:02:11] Sudan into the failed state it is today. [00:02:14] Um right now the Sudanese government [00:02:16] forces have been battling the rebel [00:02:19] faction uh the rapid support forces or [00:02:22] the RSF and the RSF is now in control of [00:02:25] much of the southwest of the country. So [00:02:28] we'd love to get your expertise as [00:02:30] somebody who uh covers Africa. Uh you [00:02:34] are Sudin Sudin as well. So could you [00:02:37] just tell us how did we get to this [00:02:39] humanitarian crisis that we see today? [00:02:43] >> Well, it's a it's [clears throat] a long [00:02:44] story. Um in 2011, [00:02:49] Sudan was broken into two republics. The [00:02:51] Republic of Sudan and the Republic of [00:02:53] South Sudan. Since then [00:02:56] we have had two civil wars in the south [00:03:01] and now a proxy war in the north. South [00:03:04] Sudan according according to the World [00:03:06] Bank last year was declared the world's [00:03:09] poorest country. [00:03:11] Sudan according to the UN is the world's [00:03:14] worst humanitarian crisis. [00:03:17] So by any measure, any way you look at [00:03:19] it, it's been a disaster for both [00:03:21] countries [00:03:23] and instrumental in the division of the [00:03:25] two Sedans [00:03:27] was the evangelical right from the [00:03:30] United States. Constantly they paid [00:03:33] played adverts of we need to stop the [00:03:36] massacre of Christians by the Arabs and [00:03:40] the Muslims in the north. [00:03:42] It it doesn't mean that wasn't true, but [00:03:44] it was an oversimplistic analysis of [00:03:46] what was going on, which was essentially [00:03:50] a fight for people's rights, for [00:03:53] people's autonomous rights, for people's [00:03:55] rights to live freely and in indignity [00:03:58] in their own land. It wasn't just about [00:04:00] religion. And there was a lot more [00:04:02] complex economic political reasons for [00:04:05] you know the two bloody civil wars that [00:04:08] had happened in in Sudan since 1956 when [00:04:11] the country became independent. [00:04:14] [clears throat] [00:04:15] So the US pushed pushed for this [00:04:18] separation. The Israelis supported the [00:04:22] rebel groups in both civil wars. So the [00:04:24] first civil war that that broke out soon [00:04:26] after independence and then the second [00:04:28] civil war were both rebel groups were [00:04:30] supported by the Israelis under the [00:04:32] guise of my enemies enemies my friend [00:04:35] and the Israelis would constantly use [00:04:37] Sudan as a distraction. So whenever [00:04:41] people talk about the real Israeli [00:04:43] apartheite that's there well it's [00:04:44] nothing compared to the Arab apartite [00:04:47] that the Christians of South Sudan are [00:04:49] facing in Sudan. Again, I'm not saying [00:04:52] this to to belittle the discrimination [00:04:54] that South and these people face because [00:04:55] it was real. Um, but it was definitely a [00:04:59] ploy used by the Israelis to not only [00:05:03] demonize Islam, demonize [00:05:07] um a country that historically always [00:05:09] stood with Palestine, but also to divert [00:05:12] attention. What what about um what's [00:05:15] going on in in Palestine isn't bad. [00:05:17] what's going on in Sudan is worse was [00:05:18] was a constant tactic used by Israeli [00:05:21] officials. [00:05:23] And so then when Sudan was divided, [00:05:26] the oil revenues 75% of the oil revenues [00:05:30] also went because they they exist in [00:05:33] South Sudan. The pipelines run through [00:05:35] the north, but still the the the oil [00:05:39] money that propped up the Bashier regime [00:05:42] was gone. And so the corrupt um Bashier [00:05:47] regime [00:05:49] really struggled to provide just the [00:05:51] basic necessities [00:05:53] um as well as keeping this military [00:05:56] apparatus that keeps him in power in [00:05:58] check. Um so there was you know [00:06:02] rebellions that were popping out in [00:06:04] different parts of the country. The [00:06:05] rebellion in Dar started in 2003 but the [00:06:08] rebellion in the Ner mountains uh [00:06:10] restarted. rebellion in in the blue now [00:06:13] started and it and and the north was [00:06:15] just engulfed in conflict and and [00:06:18] destabilization from that point. [00:06:22] Then came the December um revolution [00:06:24] that happened at the end of 2018, [00:06:26] beginning of 2019. [00:06:29] Um and you know Bashir was toppled by [00:06:33] his generals and the leader of the RSF [00:06:36] Atti and we had this strange situation [00:06:39] where there was a power sharing [00:06:41] agreement between a transitional [00:06:42] civilian government and the military. [00:06:45] Now during that time came the Abraham [00:06:48] Accords. [00:06:50] So, it was it was a very interesting [00:06:53] thing to witness cuz I interviewed the [00:06:56] spokesman for the transitional civilian [00:06:58] government who's also the information [00:07:00] minister at the time and I asked him um [00:07:04] how come you decided to normalize [00:07:06] relations with Israel when you're not an [00:07:09] elected government but you're a [00:07:10] transitional government and he broke it [00:07:12] down and he said in the leadup to the [00:07:15] 2020 presidential elections in the US [00:07:19] normalization [00:07:20] wasn't linked to taking Sudan after the [00:07:23] state sponsor of terror. So the the [00:07:26] conditions were compensation for uh uh [00:07:30] 9/11 uh victims, [00:07:33] liberalization of some laws, you know, [00:07:35] the dress code, etc., etc. [00:07:38] um [00:07:39] it wasn't a an official condition but an [00:07:42] unofficial condition moving away from [00:07:44] the Islamic Republic of Iran which [00:07:45] happened in 2015 but normalization [00:07:49] wasn't explicitly part of it then as the [00:07:51] elections were coming up Mike Pompeo who [00:07:54] was the US secretary of state at the [00:07:56] time said no if you want the state [00:07:58] sponsor of terror designation lifted you [00:08:01] have to join the Abraham Accords and you [00:08:03] have to normalize relations with Israel [00:08:06] initially they refused used and said [00:08:09] this is a decision to be taken by an [00:08:10] elected government not by a transitional [00:08:13] one but at the time Sudan's and this is [00:08:16] coming from Fel Muhammad Sal the [00:08:18] information minister not my words he [00:08:20] says at the time Sudanese economy was [00:08:22] free falling and they were concerned [00:08:25] that if they were to wait for the [00:08:27] results of an of the election number one [00:08:30] Trump could come back in and and say no [00:08:32] you have to normalize relations so [00:08:34] they've just wasted time and number two [00:08:36] Biden might continue the same policy. Um [00:08:39] and and the the the the Sudanese economy [00:08:42] was was free falling which was just [00:08:44] weakening the transitional civilian [00:08:46] government and strengthening [00:08:48] the the armed forces in the country [00:08:50] principally the military and the militia [00:08:54] which was which was meaning that the [00:08:56] process of transition to civilian [00:08:58] government was meaning was becoming more [00:09:00] unlikely. So they reluctantly agreed to [00:09:03] the Abraham Accords. [00:09:05] Um which which all it did was amongst [00:09:08] the Sudanese masses, it meant the [00:09:10] transitional civilian government had [00:09:12] just lost all credibility because not [00:09:16] only did they say they weren't going to [00:09:17] do this, but now they did it. Um and [00:09:22] they kind of went back on everything [00:09:24] that they said in public that this is a [00:09:26] decision to be taken by an elected [00:09:27] government, not a transitional [00:09:28] government. So Israel and US has played [00:09:30] a pivotal role in everything that we see [00:09:33] happening. We saw um a an agreement for [00:09:37] a Russian naval base by the Sudin [00:09:40] military. the Sudin ambassador that had [00:09:44] not been in the country for many years [00:09:46] due to the the West falling out with um [00:09:50] with Omar Blash's regime um came back to [00:09:53] the country and said if you do this it [00:09:56] will be a huge huge mistake and before [00:09:59] we know it the country is engulfed in [00:10:02] war. [00:10:04] Um so and and and then countries [00:10:07] engulfed in war with both sides at the [00:10:10] start of the war having the backing of [00:10:13] key US allies. So at the start of the [00:10:16] war it was Egypt backing the Sudin army [00:10:19] key US ally the largest beneficiary of [00:10:22] of US military aid in Africa and the and [00:10:26] the United Arab Emirates. [snorts] Now [00:10:28] as the wars transpired the Sudanese [00:10:30] armies had new partners Algeria, Iran, [00:10:34] Russia but at the beginning that was it [00:10:37] and they did nothing to stop the war and [00:10:40] as the wars transpired and we've seen [00:10:42] the UAE loot gold from Sudan. The UAE is [00:10:46] now the second largest exporter of gold [00:10:48] in the world. But if you travel up and [00:10:51] down the United Arab Emirates, you won't [00:10:53] find a single gold mine. So, you can [00:10:55] only imagine how that happens. Um, it [00:10:59] funnels weapons to the rapid support [00:11:01] forces via Chad, via Uganda, and [00:11:04] allegedly by Ethiopia. [00:11:07] The US could make one phone call and [00:11:10] stop its ally, but it refuses to. And [00:11:13] what we've seen recently is that Donald [00:11:17] Trump, it says, "If you want peace, [00:11:20] um, then we're going to have to get [00:11:21] something for that peace." much similar [00:11:24] to what we saw with the fake peace deal [00:11:27] conducted between Rwanda and Congo where [00:11:30] it was we'll provide you security from [00:11:33] our principal ally in the region Rwanda [00:11:37] if you give up mining concessions and [00:11:40] concessions for critical minerals in the [00:11:43] Congo. So that it looks like that is the [00:11:47] move that Donald Trump is trying to [00:11:48] negotiate in Sudan. Um but obviously the [00:11:52] Sunnese people are not for it especially [00:11:55] because there's not been any peace in [00:11:57] Congo since the the the uh the peace [00:12:00] deal that was signed in June. M M23 [00:12:04] which is an a Rwanda backed militia for [00:12:06] still controls GMA and much as eastern [00:12:09] Congo. People are still being sad. [00:12:11] People are still being killed. People [00:12:13] are still displaced internally and [00:12:15] externally. So it's not even a real [00:12:18] piece. Um, so yeah, that's the situation [00:12:22] and it's a and it's a it's a sad [00:12:23] situation for anyone that's concerned [00:12:25] about what's going on in Sudan. [00:12:27] >> And I can imagine that the Sudanese [00:12:29] people of course would reject any [00:12:31] normalization with Israel and any sort [00:12:33] of like peace broker deal by the United [00:12:36] States like you mentioned because Sudan [00:12:39] such has such a strong tradition of [00:12:42] being a progressive country. Most people [00:12:44] don't even realize this. Sudan has been [00:12:46] one of the most progressive countries in [00:12:48] Africa and has been a very very strong [00:12:52] um backer of resistance against US [00:12:55] imperialism [00:12:58] and so and also in supporting you know [00:13:00] Palestine's right to resist you know [00:13:03] Israeli occupation. Can you talk more [00:13:05] about that history that unknown history [00:13:07] that we rarely hear about? [00:13:09] >> Sure. But it's a it's a complicated [00:13:11] history because [00:13:14] I wouldn't describe Omar Bashir's regime [00:13:16] as anti-imperialist. [00:13:18] Um when I was in Sudan in 2017, [00:13:21] there were adverts on Sudin television [00:13:24] encouraging people to join pick up arms [00:13:27] and go fight for jihad in Syria. Um, and [00:13:30] as you've covered extensively on Mint [00:13:32] Press, [00:13:34] um, uh, operation, uh, Cotip was [00:13:37] operation tikour, which was a USbacked, [00:13:41] Obama backed $1 billion operation, was [00:13:44] bringing fighters from all over the [00:13:45] world to topple the Bashik precisely. [00:13:51] >> Sycamore, that's it. Thank you. [00:13:53] precisely because of um Assad's [00:13:58] protection of resistance groups and [00:14:00] support of resistance groups. So there's [00:14:03] that. There was also a member of the [00:14:05] PFLP [00:14:07] uh um group, a resistance group in [00:14:09] Palestine, a Venezuelan by the name of [00:14:12] Carlos the Jackal. He went to Sudan to [00:14:15] take refuge and he was drugged [00:14:19] um by the Sudin government. um and [00:14:22] handed over [clears throat] to France [00:14:24] and he still sits he still sits in [00:14:26] French prison um to this day. Uh no [00:14:30] trial, no fair jewelry, no trial of his [00:14:32] peers. So it's complicated. Of course, [00:14:35] Sudan holds the Muslim Brotherhood um [00:14:38] banner and as part of the Muslim [00:14:42] Brotherhood movement, you have to talk [00:14:44] about Palestine. You have to talk about [00:14:46] Palestine to have legitimacy in your own [00:14:49] country. I'm sure at some point we'll [00:14:51] see Ahmed Shah um the the self the [00:14:54] self-declared president of Syria talk [00:14:56] about Palestine. But that being said, [00:15:00] it it did play quite an interesting role [00:15:02] in a sense of Sudan, the Republic of [00:15:06] Sudan, North Sudan is majority Sunni, [00:15:09] but it didn't take a sectarian line on [00:15:11] this initially. Of course, this changed [00:15:14] in 2015. [00:15:15] >> And you're talking about Syria. [00:15:17] >> I'm talking No, I'm talking about Iran. [00:15:19] Okay. [00:15:20] >> Close relationships. He had he had close [00:15:22] relationships [00:15:24] um with Iran. Um while a lot of the the [00:15:27] Sunni regimes in the in the in the area [00:15:30] rejected any sort of association with [00:15:32] Iran purely on sectarian violence. So he [00:15:36] did have a good relationship with Iran. [00:15:38] Iran apparently used Sudan as a conduit [00:15:42] to provide weapons to resistance. How [00:15:44] much how extensive that is, we don't [00:15:47] know. Um, Israel definitely used that as [00:15:50] a pretext to push Bill Clinton to bomb [00:15:54] Sudan's largest pharmaceutical factory [00:15:56] in 1998 [00:15:59] um, shortly after the Monica Lewinsky [00:16:00] affair, but that's a story for another [00:16:02] day. Um, [00:16:05] so yeah, it's a complicated history. And [00:16:07] then of course we all know one of the [00:16:09] most revolutionary movements in the [00:16:11] whole region is the Hufi Allah movement. [00:16:16] The Houthies had to fight Sudin soldiers [00:16:19] in Yemen who were sent by Amal Basher. [00:16:24] Um, so what happened I guess what people [00:16:27] might not understand is there was a [00:16:30] split in Sudan between Hassan El Turi [00:16:35] who was allegedly a real believer of you [00:16:38] know the Muslim Brotherhood cause and [00:16:40] the leader of the Muslim Brotherhood [00:16:41] movement in Sudan who was obviously very [00:16:43] keen on supporting the Palestinian cause [00:16:46] and Amashir [00:16:48] who was a general that used the language [00:16:50] and the the the clothing of the [00:16:53] brotherhood to maintain power. As soon [00:16:55] as Hassan Alabi was kicked out of the [00:16:58] movement, then we started to see the [00:17:00] moves of Bashir sending foot soldiers to [00:17:04] fight in Yemen to fight the Hufian Allah [00:17:07] on behalf of the Saudi the Saudi Saudi [00:17:10] and UAE um axis. So, it's complicated. [00:17:13] It's complicated. It's not like a Chavez [00:17:17] where from 1998 until the day they've [00:17:20] passed consistently being on the [00:17:22] anti-imperialist side and there's [00:17:24] there's a lot of um flip-flopping and [00:17:27] attempts of reproachment and and and [00:17:30] trying to get back in the in the West [00:17:31] camp and actually that actually ended up [00:17:34] being his downfall. So in 2015 [00:17:38] uh they kind of cut off relations with [00:17:40] Iran and pivoted towards Saudi Arabia [00:17:42] and the UAE. This was done precisely to [00:17:46] hold on to power thinking that I'm [00:17:49] better with the west if I do reproach [00:17:50] from the west. I can get the sanctions [00:17:52] relieved. I can um I'm better that I can [00:17:56] get some of that Gulf Arab money. Um but [00:17:59] when he did that, you know, he provided [00:18:01] foot soldiers in in Yemen. He was [00:18:03] promised by the Saudis in the UAE, if [00:18:05] you do this for us, we've got [00:18:07] Washington's ear, we'll get you back [00:18:09] into the camp. the leader of the rapid [00:18:11] support forces who was working for [00:18:13] Hermeti at the time who was working for [00:18:14] Basher at the time who's now leading the [00:18:16] rapid support forces Muhammad Hamdan [00:18:18] Daglo aka Hmeti he had lobbyed and [00:18:22] employed a Canadian lobby lobby firm [00:18:25] called Dickens Madison and um and there [00:18:30] was a former ex-Israeli spy called Ari [00:18:34] Benache who was paid a fee of $1 million [00:18:38] to get the Basher regime an audience [00:18:41] with Donald Trump. Of course, that [00:18:43] didn't materialize. Of course, that led [00:18:45] to nothing. But it showed the lengths [00:18:48] and depths that they were trying to go [00:18:50] to to get back into Washington's good [00:18:53] books. And actually, while they did [00:18:56] that, they kind of let their defenses [00:18:57] down. And this is what led to the United [00:19:01] Arab Emirates courting [00:19:04] um Muhammad Hamdan Daglo aka Hemeti and [00:19:07] making him their man in Sudan who would [00:19:09] then turn on Basher um and and be [00:19:12] involved in the coup that would topple [00:19:13] him at the end of 2019 at the beginning [00:19:16] end of 2018 beginning of 2019. [00:19:19] >> And you know Ahmed you know I I did that [00:19:21] explainer on Sudan. We we all know that [00:19:24] the second a nation begins to turn to [00:19:27] the US to make these processions, that's [00:19:30] really when the United States topples [00:19:33] those governments. We saw that in Syria [00:19:36] when even Bashar al-Assad when he just [00:19:38] started to say, you know what, let me [00:19:39] try to get what I can get out of the [00:19:42] Saudis since we're sanctioned to help [00:19:44] rebuild our country. Next thing you [00:19:45] know, he's, you know, running away in to [00:19:48] Russia and he's been removed and now we [00:19:50] have Ahmed Shara. Same thing with [00:19:54] the second he started to make you know [00:19:56] processions. He was um you know his [00:20:01] country was turned into a failed state [00:20:02] and bombed endlessly by NATO and he was [00:20:05] sodomized and dragged through the [00:20:06] streets. And so I think the lesson here [00:20:09] is the United States is not on your [00:20:10] side. They're not going to be on your [00:20:12] side. They don't forget that your [00:20:14] country stood against them at one point [00:20:16] and they're not going to um work with [00:20:19] you. And this is how the United States [00:20:22] acts in these situations. Then we have [00:20:24] countries like the UAE. He mentioned [00:20:27] them earlier. You know, Abu Dhabi right [00:20:29] now is a major leading proxy actor for [00:20:34] the United States in the Middle East. [00:20:36] People kind of think like Saudi Arabia [00:20:38] is like their main Gulf ally, but [00:20:41] actually the UAE, I would say, is an [00:20:42] even stronger ally to the United States [00:20:45] in terms of um carrying out, you know, [00:20:48] US imperialist missions in the region. [00:20:51] And we saw that in in Yemen and we're [00:20:54] seeing that now and we've been seeing it [00:20:56] for decades now in um in Sudan. And so [00:21:00] the UAE right now has been arming the [00:21:03] RSF. They basically trained them to [00:21:06] become the military that they are today [00:21:08] that we've seen committing horrific [00:21:10] crimes on camera from rapings to [00:21:13] executions on camera. And they're just [00:21:15] like the Israelis. They're proudly [00:21:17] posting them on their social media. Like [00:21:19] they're just totally proudly posting [00:21:20] these crimes. And the UAE is the second [00:21:24] largest exporter of gold in the world. [00:21:26] And they don't even have any gold mines. [00:21:28] None. They're getting this gold. They're [00:21:30] they're extracting this gold illegally [00:21:33] from Sudan while the people there are [00:21:36] starving. I mean, when I look at images [00:21:38] of Abu Dhabi, it just disgusts me how [00:21:41] addicted they are to this wealth that [00:21:44] doesn't even belong to them. Can you [00:21:46] comment on that? [00:21:48] >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and it's not just in [00:21:51] Sudan. Um, it's the whole they've got a [00:21:55] whole Africa project right now. So [00:21:57] they've been backing uh General Hafta in [00:22:00] Libya. Um they've also now propping up [00:22:04] Abi Ahmed in in Ethiopia which the US is [00:22:08] desperate to push into a confrontation [00:22:10] with Aritraa which is which historically [00:22:14] is the only country in Africa that [00:22:16] doesn't have any militarytoilitary [00:22:18] alliance with Africa [00:22:21] was the second when they kicked out the [00:22:23] Afric uh base um after the revolution [00:22:26] after the coup and then the revol the [00:22:28] coup which was a revolutionary too. Um [00:22:32] yeah, and they're just constantly [00:22:34] causing problems. They um they pushed [00:22:39] for recognition of Somali land um which [00:22:42] then you know Somali lands a breakaway [00:22:45] territory of Somalia. Um which then [00:22:49] forced the Somali president's hand. So [00:22:51] now they've got good relations with [00:22:53] Somalia. uh because Somalia doesn't want [00:22:55] to see um them kind of push for this [00:23:01] fake recognition of an autonomous region [00:23:04] of the country which is still part of [00:23:06] Somalia. Um and then they're using their [00:23:09] company called Blue Carbon to offset [00:23:12] their carbon credits by buying up buying [00:23:14] up arable and forest land throughout [00:23:17] Africa. So they're buying up huge swaves [00:23:19] of forest in Liberia, huge waves of [00:23:23] arable land in Kenya, huge swaves of [00:23:25] arable land in Zambia and Zimbabwe. And [00:23:28] they're using this to say, "Look, we're [00:23:31] uh we don't have any problem with with [00:23:34] um with with pollution cuz we we managed [00:23:37] to offset our carbon credits with with [00:23:39] all of this arable land and forest land [00:23:41] that we've got in Africa." What the UAE [00:23:44] is basically trying to do, it's seen the [00:23:47] playbook. It realizes despite you know [00:23:50] what the west says about models of [00:23:53] development, most of the development [00:23:54] comes through imperialism. Yeah. If we [00:23:57] look at the G20 for example, if we look [00:23:59] at the develop uh the the the the [00:24:02] so-called developed world, the France, [00:24:06] UK, the US, Canada, Belgium, these are [00:24:11] places that either have colonial history [00:24:14] or neoc colonial or imperialist history. [00:24:17] Um and so the UAE recognizes that it [00:24:21] wants if it really wants to develop, if [00:24:23] it really wants to move beyond being a [00:24:25] pro state, it has to see see um get more [00:24:30] arable land in the African continent. It [00:24:33] imports 90% of its food. Um the oil will [00:24:38] eventually run out. When it will happen, [00:24:40] different economists has predictions of [00:24:41] when that will happen. Will it happen in [00:24:42] the next 50 years, next 100 years, but [00:24:44] it definitely will run out. So they're [00:24:46] trying to diversify their economy not by [00:24:48] producing different things but by taking [00:24:51] over other people's countries and taking [00:24:53] over the industries in Sudan. Of course [00:24:56] it's the gold sector but it's also the [00:24:58] the the arable land a place called [00:25:00] Alazer state. Sudan is the third largest [00:25:04] country in Africa but we have the [00:25:06] largest arable land. Algeria is the [00:25:08] largest country but so much of it is [00:25:10] desert. Congo, so much of it is forest, [00:25:12] but we have huge, huge farmland. Um, and [00:25:16] that was one of the first places that [00:25:17] the RSF tried to take over. They were [00:25:20] eventually pushed out by the Sudanese [00:25:22] army last year. But still, it it shows [00:25:25] that the ambition isn't just gold. It [00:25:27] isn't just the Red Sea. It's also also [00:25:30] the land, it's also the cattle, it's [00:25:32] also food production. Um, and yeah, it's [00:25:37] allowed to do this. Um because just was [00:25:40] it was it recently on a trip to to the [00:25:44] White House we saw Saudi Arabia pledged [00:25:46] to give what a trillion the UAE pledged [00:25:50] to give 600 million. This is basically [00:25:54] the same structure of a mafia. In a [00:25:56] mafia you have the captain, you have the [00:25:59] underboss and then you have the boss. [00:26:01] The captain kicks up to the under boss. [00:26:03] the underboss kicks up to the um to the [00:26:06] boss. In the situation of Sudan, the [00:26:09] captain would be Muhammad Haman Dagalo [00:26:11] aka Hemeti. The underboss would be the [00:26:14] UAE and the final boss would be the [00:26:17] United States. So, as much profit as the [00:26:22] UAE is making out of our continent, best [00:26:25] believe there's kickbacks provided to [00:26:28] the person that allows them, the entity [00:26:30] that allows them to operate in this way. [00:26:33] Well, and I think a lot of people forget [00:26:34] like you mentioned like the US could [00:26:36] just pick up the phone and end this [00:26:38] crisis, but they won't because there's a [00:26:40] lot at stake here in terms of the [00:26:43] landscape, the minerals, you know, the [00:26:45] access points and this push back that [00:26:48] we're seeing by the United States to [00:26:49] push out China and Russia. um you know, [00:26:54] countries across Africa and the global [00:26:56] south in general are choosing to work [00:26:59] with China and Russia or China and [00:27:02] Russia because they're not necessarily [00:27:05] threatening to overthrow their [00:27:06] governments. They're more respectful of [00:27:08] those countries culture and traditions [00:27:11] and are pulling people out of poverty. [00:27:14] It's not perfect, but it does give these [00:27:17] global south countries another option [00:27:20] that is not US imperialism because US [00:27:22] imperialism has shown to benefit uh a [00:27:26] very specific 1% and to plunder [00:27:28] countries. They don't want the US does [00:27:31] not want to see and Israel of course and [00:27:33] its proxies don't want to see any [00:27:36] country in the global south uh rise to [00:27:40] its true potential. So how has that also [00:27:43] played um with this conflict in Sudan? [00:27:48] >> Yeah, I mean at the beginning of the [00:27:49] conflict like I said it was it was [00:27:51] difficult to see as it first started who [00:27:54] was the US backing who who where did the [00:27:57] US interest lie in in here both generals [00:28:00] were involved in the normalization deal [00:28:02] the Abraham Accords. Both generals [00:28:03] pushed it. Both generals celebrated it. [00:28:06] Um um but then as the conflict developed [00:28:10] and we started to see new players enter [00:28:12] the field, for example, um Algeria was [00:28:17] supporting the Sudin army and the [00:28:20] Russians were providing the Algerians [00:28:22] with new fighter jets and the Algerians [00:28:24] were selling their old fighter jets to [00:28:26] the Sudin army. The Iranians were [00:28:29] providing drone uh drone um technology [00:28:32] to the Sudin army. Russia was providing [00:28:36] logistical support to the Sudanese army. [00:28:38] And once they started to see those types [00:28:41] of players on one side of the army, on [00:28:43] one side of the conflict, the US clearly [00:28:46] started to shift um and started to to [00:28:50] move towards the um backing of the RSF [00:28:53] via the UAE. And we've seen this in the [00:28:55] latest peace deal. The latest peace deal [00:28:59] talks about basically disarming the [00:29:02] army, ridd [00:29:05] ridding the army of the Muslim [00:29:06] Brotherhood. Um, talking about it as an [00:29:09] extremist group, but very little is said [00:29:12] about the RSF. Now, you mentioned at the [00:29:14] beginning of the show, the footage, the [00:29:17] massacres, the sexual assault, etc. And [00:29:21] the Sudin people by and large support [00:29:23] the Sudin army not because the army is [00:29:25] perfect because they see this as almost [00:29:28] a second independence war because we [00:29:31] have a foreign backed insurgency [00:29:34] by a Gulf monarchy that's trying to take [00:29:37] over our country. Um and while the [00:29:41] Sudanese army is not perfect um we have [00:29:44] a primary contradiction and the primary [00:29:46] contradiction is defeating the RSF. Um, [00:29:50] so yeah, the the it's becoming more and [00:29:53] more clearer and even the Al Bhan who's [00:29:56] been very reserved in his criticism of [00:29:58] the of of the United States was very [00:30:01] very clear in condemning them and [00:30:03] condemning the US envoy saying that the [00:30:06] paper that they presented might as well [00:30:08] been presented by the RSF and might as [00:30:11] well been presented by the UAEA. So it's [00:30:13] not a it's not a neutral um mediator. [00:30:17] Um, the RSF as well is starting to use [00:30:20] the language of Israel. So, there's an [00:30:23] RSF spokesman on an Israeli television [00:30:25] saying that the Sudanese army is the [00:30:27] Hamas of Africa. [00:30:30] >> So, they're really trying to use the [00:30:32] settler colonial conflict that's [00:30:35] happening in Gaza and use that to push [00:30:39] and sway the US to give them more [00:30:41] support. Um, the US has sanctioned RSF [00:30:45] officials and RSF companies, but it's [00:30:48] done it in a very tokenistic way. So, [00:30:51] they sanctioned RSF companies that are [00:30:53] operating in the UAE, but have said [00:30:54] nothing about the UAE. Um, they [00:30:57] sanctioned HT's brother, um, but haven't [00:31:01] sanctioned HTI. Um [00:31:04] I everything about their engagement with [00:31:07] Sudan right now seems to be a [00:31:09] performance as opposed to a real attempt [00:31:12] to stop the conflict. Um and I think [00:31:16] what really is happening is there [00:31:18] probably behind the scene conversations [00:31:20] happening with all Alahan and says yeah [00:31:22] we're being we've been very partisan [00:31:24] with this. Yeah, we might have been fair [00:31:26] and we've not been fair but you're [00:31:27] you're mixing with fellows that we're [00:31:29] not very appreciative of. So if you want [00:31:31] to see the US more favorable towards the [00:31:34] Sudin army, you need to disassociate [00:31:36] yourself from the from these um entities [00:31:40] that we have problems with, principally [00:31:41] Algeria, Russia, and Iran. [00:31:44] And um you know my final question about [00:31:46] Sudan. Of course we're going to talk [00:31:47] about other topics but on Sudan you know [00:31:50] you recently stated that the breakup of [00:31:52] Sudan in 2011 into two countries which [00:31:55] by the way was very much influenced by [00:31:57] the United States and Israel turned into [00:32:00] Sudan and South Sudan has been a [00:32:02] disaster for both bringing with it [00:32:05] division and increased rule and [00:32:07] influence from the outside like we just [00:32:09] talked about. Do you think there's a [00:32:11] need for people from both countries to [00:32:13] at least explore the possibility of [00:32:15] reunification at some stage in the [00:32:17] future, you know, to become a stronger [00:32:20] united front in the face of this uh [00:32:23] imperialist agenda to keep Sudan into a [00:32:26] failed state? [00:32:28] >> Yeah. But I was quickly told by myself [00:32:30] suddenly friends there's no chance of [00:32:32] that happening. Um, unfortunately there [00:32:35] were so many crimes committed by the [00:32:38] northern elite against the people of [00:32:40] South Sudan. Um, and there was no real [00:32:43] attempt to rectify, apologize, repair [00:32:46] the damage, anything like that. And the [00:32:49] this is this is a recent conflict. So [00:32:51] these pe these are people's aunts, [00:32:53] uncles, granddads that were brutalized. [00:32:57] Um, so that's the issue. Um, but if we [00:33:00] were to look at it purely pragmatically, [00:33:02] of course we need to reunify. Of course [00:33:04] we need to unify. I mean, as a [00:33:06] panafricanist, I'm for the unification [00:33:08] of all Africa based on this precise [00:33:11] problem as we're atomized, separated as [00:33:15] individual states. [00:33:17] We're picked off and pitted against each [00:33:19] other. Um you the reason why nijair had [00:33:24] this exploitative relationship with [00:33:26] France regarding uranium is because it [00:33:29] had no other option. It's because the re [00:33:33] if if it wasn't getting the uranium from [00:33:35] nijair it would get it from one of the [00:33:38] other 54 African countries. Um we need a [00:33:42] unified policy. Right now we're asking [00:33:45] for a seat at the at the United Nations [00:33:47] Security Council. There's no African [00:33:49] representation. How do we ask for a seat [00:33:52] as Chad? How do we ask for a seat as [00:33:56] Lutu [00:33:58] or Zambia? But imagine if we were 54 [00:34:01] African countries with united demand and [00:34:03] say, "No, while we have no [00:34:06] representation, we're cutting off all [00:34:08] trade for 90 days until you take us [00:34:11] seriously. You have more negotiating [00:34:13] power. We're 1.4 billion people. China's [00:34:16] 1.4 billion. India's 1.3 billion. So to [00:34:20] say it can't be done is nonsensical. It [00:34:22] can be done and these countries are [00:34:24] strong. And now India's GDP is bigger [00:34:27] than its former colonial power the [00:34:29] United Kingdom. Uh China is accord based [00:34:33] on purchasing power the largest economy [00:34:34] in the world. Uh united united uh block [00:34:40] we can negotiate. We can rei reite our [00:34:43] resources. We can unite our militaries. [00:34:46] we can fight this this this [00:34:49] devastating problem of terrorism. The [00:34:52] AES is trying to unite as three [00:34:53] countries to fight [00:34:56] uh what many people call the western [00:34:58] back terrorist forces in the Sahal. If [00:35:00] it was 54 countries, these these forces [00:35:02] will be defeated within a week, within a [00:35:04] month. U so yeah, unity unification is [00:35:08] always always better. And as we're [00:35:10] atomized, we're weak and and we're [00:35:12] easily picked off and exploited. Of [00:35:14] course, I mean, that's what we saw in [00:35:16] the Middle East with Sykespico, this [00:35:18] plan to break up all these countries [00:35:20] into smaller little nations where people [00:35:23] are less united. And, you know, we we're [00:35:25] seeing that now with the plans for [00:35:27] Syria, what happened in Iraq, and who [00:35:31] knows what will what will happen um [00:35:33] next. But I I really want to move on to [00:35:35] Nigeria now because hey Nicki Minaj out [00:35:38] of all people recently spoke at the UN [00:35:41] at the United Nations highlighting the [00:35:43] plight of Nigeria's uh Christian [00:35:45] community and you know she claimed that [00:35:48] there is a systematic campaign against [00:35:50] them amounting to a genocide and just [00:35:52] like in Sudan that right conservative [00:35:55] movement in the US was kind of you know [00:35:58] pulled together to support the [00:36:00] Christians there I see the same thing [00:36:01] kind of taking place again in Nigeria. [00:36:03] neria. So during her speech, she thanked [00:36:06] President Trump for standing up for [00:36:08] Nigeria's Christians. She went on [00:36:09] Twitter to do the same thing. And people [00:36:12] of course went at her because where was [00:36:15] she when Israel was wiping out the most [00:36:18] historic Christians in Gaza, the ones [00:36:21] that are directly linked um to Jesus and [00:36:24] Mary's bloodline. So what do you make of [00:36:27] this event, Ahmed? Is what Trump and [00:36:29] Nicki Minaj uh are saying, is it true? I [00:36:32] mean is there a genocide against [00:36:34] Christians in Niger Nigeria and what [00:36:36] exactly is going on? [00:36:38] >> There's not a genocide but there are [00:36:40] killings of all groups. So animist [00:36:43] groups, Muslim groups, Christian groups [00:36:47] and this comes from the fact of the [00:36:49] Nigerian state is weak. [00:36:52] It's badly mismanaged. There are people [00:36:54] with economic grievances. [00:36:57] The north is severely underdeveloped. [00:37:00] Nigeria has some of the worst statistics [00:37:03] you could find. It has the most people [00:37:05] living in extreme poverty in the world [00:37:08] over it overtook India and India has [00:37:11] five times the population. [00:37:13] Um it's the worst place for mothers to [00:37:16] give birth the highest maternal [00:37:18] mortality mortality. [00:37:21] Um it has high illiterac [00:37:25] illiteracy rates. Um, by all by all [00:37:29] measures, it's a failed government. [00:37:31] Yeah. Um, and they know this because [00:37:35] they've been part of pushing [00:37:37] client states and client leaders, the [00:37:39] most recent one, Bola Ahmed Tanibu, [00:37:41] who's mentioned in the Wikileaks files [00:37:44] as as um as being a CIA asset, who's the [00:37:47] current president of Nigeria. That's [00:37:49] another example of what we talked about [00:37:51] before. Um, it's the famous saying by [00:37:54] Henry Kissinger, being an enemy of of [00:37:57] the United States is dangerous, but [00:38:00] being our friend is fatal. Cuz if [00:38:02] they're pushing this on Nigeria where [00:38:04] they've got their friend sitting at the [00:38:07] helm, then what hopes do the US's [00:38:10] enemies have? Um, but yeah, there's [00:38:13] there's a couple of problems. Obviously, [00:38:15] there's the Boka Haram insurgency. [00:38:18] There's also a bandit problem um which [00:38:21] is related to land disputes with nomadic [00:38:24] tribes [00:38:26] um um who you know I don't want to I [00:38:29] don't want to give them any legitimacy [00:38:32] because they've got none but out of [00:38:34] economic desperation they've been [00:38:36] attacking and looting and stealing. Um [00:38:40] and this also comes as the backdrop of [00:38:43] 2011. What happened in 2011? [00:38:46] They they funded the Libyan Islamic [00:38:49] fighting group. They encouraged rebels [00:38:52] from all over the world but particularly [00:38:53] in Africa to flood to flood to Libya to [00:38:57] overthrow Mama Gaddafi. After they [00:38:59] overthrew Mama Gaddafi in a country as [00:39:02] large as Libya, what happened to all [00:39:04] those weapons? They obviously got sold [00:39:07] in the black market. Now Africa has [00:39:10] become the epicenter [00:39:12] of a terrorism problem which we didn't [00:39:15] have before 2011. We're now seeing a [00:39:19] terrorist threat in Bikina Faso, a [00:39:20] terrorist threat in Malia, a terrorist [00:39:23] threat in Nijair, a terrorist threat in [00:39:26] the Central African Republic, terrorist [00:39:28] threat in Chad. These places didn't have [00:39:30] terrorism problems before 2011. Of [00:39:33] course, the US doesn't include this in [00:39:35] their analysis. you know, we've made [00:39:37] life more difficult for Christians, [00:39:39] Muslims, and animists, and all Africans [00:39:42] because of our 20 2011 um backing of of [00:39:47] militant takiri rebel groups in Libya. [00:39:50] Um so yeah, I mean, and Nicki Minaj's [00:39:53] involvement, [00:39:56] I don't know what to say. It's it's it's [00:39:58] so opportunistic [00:40:01] um and devoid of any real compassion [00:40:04] because you mentioned the Palestinian [00:40:05] Christians. We could also mention the [00:40:08] Syrian Christians [00:40:10] um uh who after the guy that was that [00:40:13] was that was shooting basketball hoops [00:40:16] in Washington um uh um al- Shar Ahmed [00:40:20] al- Shar [00:40:21] >> formerly known as Al Jalani [00:40:23] >> um after his group of terrorist fighters [00:40:27] took over Syria, what did we see happen [00:40:28] to Christians? [00:40:30] >> What did we see happen to Alawites? What [00:40:31] did we see happen to Jews? Where was [00:40:33] Nicki Minaj then? the I it's it's [00:40:36] clearly about the oil in Nigeria, [00:40:41] the mineral wealth in Nigeria [00:40:44] and they don't like the idea that not [00:40:47] the [clears throat] Nigerian government [00:40:49] but Nigerian businessmen have been [00:40:51] taking more [00:40:53] have been taking economic decisions for [00:40:56] Nigeria sovereignty. Who am I talking [00:40:58] about? A guy called Dangoti is an oil [00:41:01] baron. I'm not usually a fan of [00:41:03] billionaire oil barons, but one of the [00:41:06] things that he did was he was like, [00:41:07] "This is ridiculous. We're the biggest [00:41:09] oil producer in Africa, yet we export, [00:41:14] we export oil, but then we import fuel. [00:41:18] How does that make any sense? Why don't [00:41:20] we have any oil refineries in Nigeria?" [00:41:24] Um, and of course this this sent a huge [00:41:28] a huge shock wave to the to the [00:41:31] multinational oil uh uh companies [00:41:34] because they're like, well, if this [00:41:35] happens in Nigeria, this might happen in [00:41:38] Angola, this might happen in South [00:41:40] Sudan, this might happen in many of the [00:41:42] other countries, Libya, where they have [00:41:44] huge oil reserves. Um, so I think it's [00:41:48] about putting Nigeria back in its place. [00:41:51] It's about um securing mineral wealth in [00:41:55] Nigeria and securing long-term oil [00:41:58] interest in Nigeria. It's not about [00:42:01] Nigerian Christians and and and also [00:42:04] it's not about Nigerians because it's [00:42:06] not just Christians that are being [00:42:08] killed. I want to play this video of um [00:42:12] how Malcolm X saw somebody like Nicki [00:42:14] Minaj. [00:42:16] >> Just told you a little while ago these [00:42:17] leaders that they called leaders. This [00:42:19] included Lena Horn. This included Dick [00:42:22] Gregory. This included comedians, [00:42:24] comics, trumpet players, baseball [00:42:26] players. Show me in the white community [00:42:28] where a comedian is a white leader. Show [00:42:31] me in the white community where a singer [00:42:33] is a white leader or a dancer or a [00:42:35] trumpet player is a white leader. These [00:42:37] aren't leaders. These are puppets and [00:42:39] clowns that uh have been set up over the [00:42:42] white community and over the black [00:42:44] community by the white community and [00:42:47] have been made celebrities and usually [00:42:49] say exactly what uh they know that the [00:42:51] white man wants to hear. [00:42:54] I would like to thank President Trump [00:42:57] for prioritizing this issue and for his [00:43:00] leadership on the global stage and [00:43:02] calling for urgent action to defend [00:43:04] Christians in Nigeria, to combat [00:43:07] extremism, and to bring a stop to [00:43:09] violence against those who simply want [00:43:11] to exercise their natural right to [00:43:14] freedom of religion or belief. So what's [00:43:17] crazy about all of this is that Trump is [00:43:19] threatening to intervene in Nigeria, but [00:43:21] actually Nigeria has been of one of [00:43:23] Washington's closest allies in the [00:43:25] region. Um especially under um President [00:43:28] Bullah Tinubu. So [00:43:32] usually it is, you know, the when when [00:43:35] the US wants to intervene in a country, [00:43:37] it's countries that are aligned with [00:43:40] Iran or North Korea or Venezuela. And in [00:43:43] this case, it's actually the complete [00:43:45] opposite. So um and then then also [00:43:48] Nigeria is a key member of the ECOS [00:43:51] which is the western approved economic [00:43:53] and military alliance. Could you tell us [00:43:55] a little bit more about the US Nigeria [00:43:57] relationship under Tonubu? [00:44:00] Yeah. I mean, so when there was the [00:44:03] revolutionary coup happening in Nier, [00:44:06] Nigeria, [00:44:08] um, which is obviously English-speaking [00:44:09] country. I say that because usually [00:44:12] France's client states in the region are [00:44:14] the former franophhone countries was [00:44:17] pushing for echoas which is a block [00:44:20] which is dominate is dominated and [00:44:22] controlled by France to invade Niger [00:44:27] um um and reinstall the Frenchbacked [00:44:31] president Muhammad Bazou [00:44:34] and that's what started the AES. So [00:44:36] Bikina Faso and Marley said if you [00:44:39] invade Nijer you'll have to invade us [00:44:41] too because we're going to come to [00:44:42] Nijair's defense. [00:44:44] Um and so that started the military [00:44:47] cooperation between the three countries [00:44:49] which then led to a military cooperation [00:44:52] to fight against the terrorist groups [00:44:54] which then led to the economic [00:44:56] cooperation and now we see AES where [00:44:59] their foreign policy is mirrored. If you [00:45:01] do something in one country, if you know [00:45:04] when they had their problem with [00:45:06] Ukraine, uh the the Pikina Faso and Mali [00:45:09] al when Mali had a problem with Ukraine, [00:45:11] Pikina Faso and Mali also issued [00:45:14] statements of condemnation. [00:45:16] Um so that's actually one of the [00:45:18] theories that this isn't about Nigeria [00:45:20] at all. This is really about Nijair and [00:45:24] really about breaking up the AES. I [00:45:27] mentioned it earlier. Aritraa [00:45:30] was the only country to not have a [00:45:33] military to military alliance with [00:45:35] African. The second country was Nijair. [00:45:40] So it it stands out in a sense of [00:45:43] fantastic things have happened in Bikina [00:45:45] Faso and Mali but they kicked out the [00:45:47] French. It's impressive but France is [00:45:51] not the US. The US is a whole another [00:45:53] power. Nishair kicked out the French and [00:45:56] the US. Um and and as you mentioned [00:46:00] before, there's something called the [00:46:02] threat of the bad example. Yeah. The [00:46:04] reason why they're determined to take [00:46:06] over Venezuela, [00:46:08] um the reason why they're determined to [00:46:10] take over Nicaragua and Iran and all [00:46:12] these other places is they they it's not [00:46:16] just about what's going on in those [00:46:17] countries. It's about the threat of the [00:46:18] bad example that someone else might [00:46:21] copy. Someone someone else might do [00:46:23] their own Bolivarian revolution. [00:46:25] Somewhere else in the region might have [00:46:28] their own Islamic revolution like what [00:46:29] happened in Iran. [00:46:31] And what they're worried about Nger is [00:46:33] hold on a second if Nair is able to kick [00:46:37] out our largest drone base in Africa to [00:46:42] to to say that they don't want to have [00:46:43] any military cooperation with Africa. [00:46:46] What happens if other countries follow [00:46:48] follow suit? What happens if Djibouti, [00:46:51] which hosts a huge US base, follows [00:46:54] suit? What happens if Liberia follows [00:46:56] suit? Um, so yeah, it does seem odd that [00:47:02] it would attack an ally like this and [00:47:04] threaten to attack an ally like this. [00:47:07] But how the US operates, many people are [00:47:10] saying, "Yeah, there might be talking [00:47:12] about Nigeria, but don't be surprised if [00:47:14] this is really about the AES and really [00:47:17] about punishing Nijair of daring to take [00:47:20] a sovereign decision and deciding who [00:47:23] its military partners should be and who [00:47:24] its military partners won't be." [00:47:26] >> Well, yeah. And Nigeria in general is [00:47:28] just such an interesting country because [00:47:30] 59% of the country actually holds a [00:47:33] positive view of Israel. Um Nigeria is a [00:47:37] very close ally of the state of Israel. [00:47:41] And we have also Chevron, I think it's [00:47:44] Chevron, correct me if I'm wrong, that's [00:47:46] operating also inside of Nigeria, you [00:47:49] know, taking up all that oil. And if you [00:47:51] actually look at what's happening in the [00:47:52] places where Nigeria is extracting the [00:47:54] oil or Chevron is extracting the oil, [00:47:57] it's like there's like miles longs of [00:48:00] like slums. People living in abstract [00:48:03] poverty. Like it's it's such a perfect [00:48:06] example of how like neoliberalism, I [00:48:09] guess you could say, took over a [00:48:10] country, brought the corporations in, [00:48:13] allied it with Israel. Now it's like [00:48:15] this kind of propped up, you know, [00:48:18] USbacked country. And that's what the [00:48:21] results are. Are people living in this [00:48:23] abstract poverty while these um you know [00:48:26] the hawks come in. Anything that you [00:48:29] want to add to that? [00:48:31] >> Yeah, I mean what you just mentioned is [00:48:32] a place called the Niger Delta region uh [00:48:35] where it's not it's not just Chevron, [00:48:37] it's Shell, it's Exxon Mobile, it's [00:48:40] Total, all of them. It's been a field [00:48:43] day. Um [00:48:45] >> and there was uh climate real climate [00:48:48] change activists in Niger in Nigeria [00:48:52] um who were protesting against this and [00:48:55] we have [00:48:57] uh released documents that show that Sha [00:49:01] pushed the military dictatorship of [00:49:03] Nigeria at the time to push to execute [00:49:05] these people. [00:49:07] Um, so it's it, you know, in many ways [00:49:11] Nigeria is not a real state. [00:49:14] It's a it's it it's a a neoc colonialist [00:49:19] wet dream. Yeah. It it it never had any [00:49:24] revolutionary leadership. It ne it has [00:49:28] all the potential in the world. [00:49:30] >> [snorts] [00:49:30] >> So, I've said this on a previous [00:49:31] podcast, but look at how Nigerians [00:49:34] perform outside the country. In the UK, [00:49:38] year one year, Nigerian students, [00:49:41] there's one family where each one of the [00:49:44] family members had managed to get into [00:49:47] Oxford by the time they were like 11 [00:49:49] years old. They managed to score the [00:49:51] highest score in their GCSEs. I think [00:49:54] there's a sim similar story happened in [00:49:55] Netherlands and similar things happens [00:49:57] in the US. [00:49:58] >> [snorts] [00:49:58] >> Nigerians in Nigeria can't achieve [00:50:02] because the state is so weak, so rund [00:50:05] down, so driven by austerity measures, [00:50:09] so reliant on IMF loans and structural [00:50:13] adjustment programs [00:50:15] um that it can't do anything to the huge [00:50:18] potential that it has. 210 million [00:50:21] people, young population, brilliant [00:50:25] minds, but starved by neoc colonial [00:50:28] puppet regime after neoccolonial puppet [00:50:30] regime. We're just hoping that the [00:50:33] latest threats by Trump has just woke a [00:50:36] few people up. Um because if like we [00:50:39] we've mentioned, if they can do this and [00:50:41] threaten and essentially delegitimize [00:50:44] their client Bah Ahmedu, then what's the [00:50:47] point of being a client? you might as [00:50:49] well take a revolutionary path that the [00:50:51] Ibrahim Chore [00:50:53] uh the Abdul Rahman Tiani that aim go [00:50:57] have taken in Mali Nija and Bikina Fasa [00:51:00] um because if you don't they'll still [00:51:02] come after you anyway [00:51:03] >> and there's a small group of I don't [00:51:05] know if they're super small but there's [00:51:07] a you know a group of uh Shia inside of [00:51:10] Nigeria who've also been uh heavily uh [00:51:14] persecuted led by Ibrahim al Zaki he's a [00:51:18] Shia leader inside of Nigeria who has [00:51:20] strongly disagreed with the stance of [00:51:23] the government aligning itself with the [00:51:25] state of Israel and he's actually called [00:51:27] for unity with the Christians there and [00:51:29] he has supported resistance groups of [00:51:32] course but he and his family have been [00:51:34] targeted I mean I think the Nigerian [00:51:36] military actually executed his sons [00:51:40] um in front of him and what can you tell [00:51:43] us about Zaki and this kind of Nigerian [00:51:46] alliance with the state of Isra Israel [00:51:48] and how that's affected the country. [00:51:51] >> Yeah. I mean, um, Sheikh Zaki has been [00:51:54] persecuted, arrested. You mentioned it, [00:51:57] right? His son has been killed. Um, [00:52:01] they're [00:52:02] the thing is when you're running a [00:52:04] heist, you're very worried about any [00:52:07] potential popular movement that's going [00:52:10] to recognize this is a heist and [00:52:12] convince other people that this is a [00:52:13] heist. So, Nigeria has always persecuted [00:52:17] community activist, community [00:52:19] leadership. Um, one of my former African [00:52:22] stream colleagues, David Hyundai, he's [00:52:25] an exile. He can't go back to Nigeria u [00:52:28] because he he helped to expose um Bola [00:52:31] Ahmed Tonubu Bola Ahmed Tonubu as being [00:52:35] a US CIA asset um way back from when he [00:52:38] was the governor of Lagos. [00:52:41] Um, so the persecution of Shik Zak Zaki [00:52:45] didn't start with Bahini. It's been [00:52:47] going on from successive Nigerian [00:52:49] governments precisely because it's not a [00:52:52] real state. It's a it's a a robbery of [00:52:57] Nigeria's resources [00:52:59] by [00:53:01] European western elites with the [00:53:03] collaboration of the middle of the [00:53:06] middlemen who happen to be the Nigerian [00:53:09] leadership, the Nigerian governance, the [00:53:11] the governor of Lagos, the Nigerian [00:53:14] president, the Nigeria foreign minister, [00:53:16] etc. Um, and Nigeria is one of those [00:53:18] countries where they know the state has [00:53:21] been systematically robbed because every [00:53:24] single one of them goes abroad for their [00:53:25] medical treatment. Yeah. Bah Ahmed Tubu [00:53:28] just came back from a foreign trip for [00:53:30] his medical treatment. Bhari, his [00:53:33] predecessor, was always in London for [00:53:35] his medical treatment. How can you be [00:53:38] the president of your country, [00:53:40] but you but you're saying our public [00:53:42] services, our private services are [00:53:45] trash? I'm going to go abroad. You have [00:53:47] the powers to change that, but they [00:53:49] don't change that. Uh that, you know, [00:53:52] it's it's such a level of corruption [00:53:55] that it it affects the elites. Um that's [00:53:58] what I'd say the difference is uh the [00:54:01] you know, there's corruption obviously [00:54:02] that happens in in Western capitals [00:54:03] every single day, but they don't rob so [00:54:06] much that they have to go on bad roads. [00:54:09] They have to travel on the same potholes [00:54:11] as everybody else. They have to land in [00:54:13] the same beaten up airport. They have to [00:54:16] go to the same hospital. So it's [00:54:18] corruption that is even detrimental to [00:54:21] themselves. And that's what's so [00:54:23] exceptional about Nigeria. [00:54:26] >> Well, then we have the opposite [00:54:27] spectrum, right? The opposite political [00:54:30] spectrum happening in West Africa where [00:54:32] we have Burkina Faso, the small [00:54:35] landlocked country which is ruled by a [00:54:37] revolutionary leader which is Ibrahim [00:54:39] Chore. Terori has made a name for [00:54:42] himself around the world preaching [00:54:44] pan-Africanism [00:54:45] and contentwide revolution so popular as [00:54:48] he that even the BBC described him as an [00:54:51] African cheer and noted that he noted [00:54:54] that he has captured the hearts and [00:54:57] minds around the world. What have you [00:54:59] made of him? [00:55:00] >> Yeah, I mean um he's he's remarkable. um [00:55:04] he obviously gets most of the plaudits [00:55:06] because he's a handsome guy, speaks very [00:55:08] well, but all three of the leaders are [00:55:11] really remarkable. All three of the [00:55:13] leaders are doing exceptional things. Um [00:55:16] and Ibraham Toé is very keen on sharing [00:55:19] the limelight as well because what's [00:55:21] going on in in the Sahal is [00:55:24] revolutionary and it's inspirational. [00:55:26] The example that I give, I lived in [00:55:29] Ghana in 2015 [00:55:32] and uh President Muhammad [00:55:36] uh was the president of Ghana. Then he [00:55:40] he got the role because he was the vice [00:55:42] president and he's he's the president [00:55:44] had passed away. So he became the [00:55:46] president. He then lost [00:55:48] um his uh his seat and was out of office [00:55:51] for eight years. He's now reelected as [00:55:53] the president of Ghana. Muhammad today [00:55:56] is completely different to Muhammad of [00:55:58] 2015. [00:56:00] That's because at his inauguration, he [00:56:03] invited Captain Ibraham Chu. The loudest [00:56:06] cheer from the Ghanaian masses was for [00:56:10] Ibrahim Chu. And you can literally see [00:56:12] it on the face of Muhammad. I want some [00:56:14] of this. Whatever this this young man is [00:56:17] selling, whatever this this [00:56:19] Panaffricanism, [00:56:21] this revolution, you know, I'm an old [00:56:23] man. I want to be I want to be cheered [00:56:25] by the masses. I want to be adored by [00:56:28] the masses. So, he started to take a [00:56:31] more revolutionary path. And that's the [00:56:33] power of what's going on in the AES. [00:56:35] We're seeing time and time again [00:56:38] um an attempt [00:56:40] to mirror what's going on in the AS. Not [00:56:42] mirror it in any real sense. You know, [00:56:45] obviously we've we've got lipstick and [00:56:47] lip gloss, but the fact that they're [00:56:50] trying to show the people that we're the [00:56:53] next Ibraham Shore, where the next Asima [00:56:55] go, where the next Tani shows the [00:56:58] powerful influence that the AS is [00:56:59] having. Um we saw that just recently [00:57:03] where there was a fake coup that [00:57:05] happened in Guinea Basau. [00:57:08] um where the revolutionary group the P [00:57:11] AIGC [00:57:13] was banned from standing in the [00:57:15] presidential election. So then they [00:57:18] endorsed a candidate called Diaz [00:57:21] um who won the election and when he won [00:57:24] the election, the incumbent president [00:57:28] basically orchestrated a fake coup [00:57:30] hoping that the people could be could be [00:57:33] fooled into thinking this is a [00:57:35] revolutionary coup like what's happening [00:57:37] in the AES. Of course, we have comrades [00:57:40] on the ground that are members of the P [00:57:42] AI P AIGC [00:57:44] who explain it to us and we've got the [00:57:46] word out and other comrades have got the [00:57:48] word out. But it just goes to show the [00:57:50] influence [00:57:51] um you know the influence that is [00:57:53] happening on the continent. [00:57:55] Unfortunately, it's not having the level [00:57:57] of influence that we would like and fast [00:57:59] enough, but time it's only it's only [00:58:02] been, you know, a few years since the [00:58:04] AES has won. So, who knows um how it [00:58:08] will transpire. I interviewed Musa [00:58:10] Ibrahim um who was Gaddafi's former [00:58:13] spokesman and he said, "If only the AES [00:58:16] was around while Gaddafi was around, [00:58:18] could you imagine what they could do in [00:58:20] that Sahal region together with [00:58:22] Gaddafi's resources and the [00:58:24] revolutionary leadership of these three [00:58:26] countries and the critical mass [00:58:28] mobilization and support that they have [00:58:31] internally. Uh but anyway, it it it's [00:58:34] remarkable and the most important thing [00:58:36] I'll say is it's not it's he gives [00:58:39] impressive speeches of course he does he [00:58:41] says impressive stuff but it's [00:58:43] infrastructure. What I think people [00:58:44] forget about Africa if you travel [00:58:46] through Africa infrastructure is the [00:58:49] most important thing. We don't need [00:58:51] western style democracy where we have a [00:58:54] two-party system where the best funded [00:58:56] candidate the one that gets himself on [00:58:59] most billboards wins the election. We [00:59:01] need infrastructure. We need roads. We [00:59:04] need bridges. This is the thing that [00:59:06] affect everyone's lives. How do you have [00:59:09] education in places where 80% of the [00:59:12] population like in Asia didn't have [00:59:14] access to the electrical grid? You know, [00:59:16] what can you do? Think of all of the [00:59:18] great minds and the talent that doesn't [00:59:21] able to reach their potential. [00:59:24] How do people from the north of country [00:59:26] travel to the capital to sell their [00:59:28] goods if there's no roads? If the roads [00:59:30] are too bad, if the roads are so bad [00:59:32] where it should take you 3 hours to get [00:59:34] there, but it takes you 12 hours. It's [00:59:36] only once you travel for the continent, [00:59:37] do you realize how important [00:59:39] infrastructure is? And that's what um [00:59:42] Captain Ibrahim Tor has focused on. [00:59:45] Paving roads, building factories, trying [00:59:48] to make Bikina Faso food sovereign, [00:59:51] setting up cooperatives. This is what [00:59:53] people are excited about because they've [00:59:56] seen decades of the previous dictator [01:00:00] Blae Compare doing absolutely nothing, [01:00:03] building nothing, setting up a few [01:00:05] French cafes so that when the French [01:00:08] ambassador uh wants to go out to eat [01:00:10] that he has somewhere to eat, but beyond [01:00:11] that, no real development. And now we're [01:00:14] seeing real development, real [01:00:16] infrastructure, and that's what people [01:00:17] are excited about. And do you foresee [01:00:19] any sort of like buildup by um you know [01:00:23] US proxies from the United States to [01:00:25] Israel or others to weaken the Borina [01:00:29] Faso uh state because of this? [01:00:33] >> It's very difficult for them to do it [01:00:35] because although the narrative is fake [01:00:38] and false in 2001 after the September [01:00:42] 11th attacks they said we are fighting a [01:00:45] war on terror. We are fighting a war on [01:00:48] terror. So if they do anything to topple [01:00:51] the free countries [01:00:53] who are the epicenter of this fight [01:00:55] against terror, it would expose I mean [01:00:59] we already know they're hypocrites, but [01:01:00] it would expose a novel level of [01:01:02] hypocrisy because you can't you know [01:01:05] they always need a narrative to sell. [01:01:07] They can't say Ibrahim Chu is a [01:01:09] terrorist. You know he's obviously [01:01:11] fighting a terrorist. Can they what can [01:01:14] they go down the Maduro route and say [01:01:15] he's a narot trafficker? Uh maybe. But [01:01:18] they they need to plant seeds and that [01:01:20] those seeds would need to to grow many [01:01:22] years from now. So they don't really [01:01:24] have the narrative. They they threw they [01:01:26] threw mud against the wall to see what [01:01:28] sticks. Nothing stuck so far. [01:01:31] >> Yeah. They've initially tried to say um [01:01:34] uh that he's using the gold of his of [01:01:37] the country to enrich himself. We saw [01:01:40] mass mobilization against that. We saw [01:01:42] protest in London. We saw protest in the [01:01:44] US. We saw protest an attempted protest [01:01:46] in Nigeria, but it was shut down by the [01:01:48] government before he got going. Um, all [01:01:50] in defense of empiratory. So, that [01:01:52] didn't work. Um, then they tried to say [01:01:56] um uh he's targeting the fani tribe uh [01:02:00] in in uh in Bikina Fasa, which doesn't [01:02:03] make sense because fanis are part of the [01:02:05] government. Dad didn't work. The latest [01:02:07] one that they've tried um to to weaken [01:02:11] his support from progressives and [01:02:13] leftist movements against the world is [01:02:15] Ibraham is a homophobe. He's pushed [01:02:18] through this anti-LGBT law. I mean again [01:02:22] it doesn't stick because look at who the [01:02:25] US's allies are. Is homosexuality legal [01:02:28] in Saudi Arabia? Is it legal in Qatar? [01:02:31] Is it legal in any of these places where [01:02:34] you know the US is has got strong um [01:02:36] alliance with? So to single out Ibraham [01:02:39] Chry out of all the countries that have [01:02:41] anti-LGBTQ [01:02:42] laws is clearly an attempt of the you [01:02:46] know putting a pink face on imperialism. [01:02:49] Um of course it has worked with a few [01:02:51] liberals in the US. Uh I've seen it on a [01:02:53] few of our posts like oh he's he's anti [01:02:55] this and he's anti that. But by and [01:02:57] large, it's not enough to to to to lay [01:03:00] the groundwork to make the ground [01:03:02] fertile for some sort of military [01:03:04] intervention. It doesn't mean that it [01:03:06] won't happen in the future, but they [01:03:07] just need a better excuse than they've [01:03:09] got now. [01:03:10] >> Well, Ahmed Kabalo, you have been such a [01:03:13] wealth of information and knowledge and [01:03:16] just wisdom from the African region. So, [01:03:18] we really appreciate you being on here. [01:03:20] I always enjoy speaking with you and you [01:03:22] know I learn so much from you and from [01:03:24] your perspective and um do you have you [01:03:27] know African Stream was obviously shut [01:03:29] down. We'd love to hear like what your [01:03:31] next plans are where people can find [01:03:33] your work and how people can support you [01:03:35] and we'll wrap it up from there. [01:03:37] >> Sure. Um so I'm set I've set up um [01:03:40] something different called Sovereign [01:03:41] Media New Media Platform. [01:03:44] It's a media platform on its own right, [01:03:45] but it's also part of a coalition [01:03:49] um in which we're supporting other media [01:03:52] outlets and other media outlets are [01:03:54] supporting us. And the idea is that we [01:03:58] would form an anti-imperialist coalition [01:04:00] of media outlets so that when something [01:04:03] like what happened to Mint Press the [01:04:05] other day happens, when they try to [01:04:07] deplatform [01:04:09] uh sovereign media or an African stream, [01:04:12] we can we can unite and amplify and all [01:04:15] raise the banner and at least expose the [01:04:18] hypocrisy and demand that the Silicon [01:04:21] Valley [01:04:22] uh tech bros uh think twice. test before [01:04:25] they go after one of us. So that's what [01:04:27] I'm working on at the moment. Uh you can [01:04:29] follow us on Sovereign Media on all [01:04:31] platforms. And you can also follow our [01:04:34] coalition partners which consist of [01:04:36] Venezuela analysis, Child Collective, [01:04:39] Black Agenda Report, Aino Tribune, and [01:04:42] many more. [01:04:43] >> That's amazing. And just a reminder that [01:04:45] just because they shut down one like [01:04:46] platform, you know, we're not going [01:04:48] anywhere. You're not going anywhere. [01:04:49] Your voice is stronger than ever. [01:04:51] [music] It's extremely important that uh [01:04:53] people follow the work that you do. and [01:04:54] we really appreciate you being here. [01:04:57] Thank you. [01:04:58] >> Thank you. Thank you. [01:05:05] [music]