📄 Extracted Text (11,664 words)
[00:00:00] Thanks so much for doing this. Um,
[00:00:03] Armenia is famous, except it's famous,
[00:00:06] Armenians are famous for, well, being
[00:00:09] successful in business and quite
[00:00:10] cohesive as a community and very uh,
[00:00:13] sincerely Christian, observant. Um, but
[00:00:16] probably they're most famous for being
[00:00:19] exterminated by the Ottoman Turks at the
[00:00:21] end of the First World War, the Armenian
[00:00:22] genocide.
[00:00:24] And I think most people don't fully
[00:00:27] appreciate the extent to which that was
[00:00:29] religious persecution. That was a
[00:00:31] religious genocide and they were
[00:00:34] murdered because they were Christians.
[00:00:35] [music]
[00:00:41] [music]
[00:00:49] [music]
[00:00:56] Tell us how we know that.
[00:00:58] >> Yeah. Uh the at the end of the rule of
[00:01:01] Ottoman Empire.
[00:01:02] >> Yes.
[00:01:03] >> The after Balkcon wars, Ottoman Turks
[00:01:06] saw that some Balkan countries like
[00:01:08] Bulgary and part of Greece uh became
[00:01:12] independent and the Christian countries
[00:01:15] in Balkans became independent. After
[00:01:18] that they filled some you know uh big
[00:01:24] uh risk in uh Christian
[00:01:29] population of Ottoman Empire like
[00:01:32] Armenians, Pontus Greeks became uh
[00:01:36] independent and they started to
[00:01:38] persecute the Christian population of
[00:01:40] Ottoman Empire or to convert them to
[00:01:44] Islam. how it went on when at the when
[00:01:49] the war started between Anta and Ottoman
[00:01:52] Empire, the Germany and Austrohungaria
[00:01:56] uh Hungary, the Ottoman army came to all
[00:02:00] villages of Armenians in Ottoman Empire
[00:02:03] and asked two questions just the
[00:02:06] villagers or the people who lived in
[00:02:08] towns. The first question was will you
[00:02:11] convert to Islam
[00:02:14] like 98% of the uh population Armenian
[00:02:19] population of Ottoman Empire denied
[00:02:21] >> said no
[00:02:22] >> said no and the second question is if
[00:02:26] you don't convert to Islam you will go
[00:02:30] from here to desert of their zor it's
[00:02:34] like 800 kilometers the 600 kilometers
[00:02:37] from Armenian highlands
[00:02:39] And all the men were killed and all the
[00:02:43] women were taken with children to desert
[00:02:47] of the Azor and we have lost the 70% of
[00:02:50] the population of our nation because the
[00:02:56] everyone one and a half million people
[00:02:58] said no to converting to other religion.
[00:03:03] uh we we want everyone to know about
[00:03:06] this story not just uh about the dark
[00:03:09] side of the history. It's has a bright
[00:03:13] message too that Christian in the 20th
[00:03:17] century were very
[00:03:20] >> you know they went in a way of Christ
[00:03:23] and they were were sacrificed.
[00:03:26] uh and we hope the all this sacrificial
[00:03:31] will bring uh the Christian of our days
[00:03:35] to more faith to that what we have the
[00:03:40] biggest and most humanistic religion
[00:03:43] that we accept and we must live with it.
[00:03:47] So I didn't I did not understand until
[00:03:49] we just had breakfast that the ar the
[00:03:52] victims of the Armenian genocide who've
[00:03:54] been talked about a lot. There's been a
[00:03:56] debate in the Congress for many years
[00:03:57] whether we can call it a genocide
[00:03:59] whether that's somehow trademarked but
[00:04:01] it was a genocide. But I didn't
[00:04:04] understand that they were Christian
[00:04:05] martyrs. They died not because of their
[00:04:07] ethnicity but because of their religious
[00:04:09] faith.
[00:04:10] >> There were no any problem with
[00:04:11] ethnicity. There were Armenians like 2%
[00:04:14] of Armenians in Ottoman Empire were
[00:04:16] Muslim and just this 2% are living till
[00:04:20] now in the north of Ottoman Empire
[00:04:22] without any trouble.
[00:04:24] >> Interesting.
[00:04:25] >> The other 98%
[00:04:27] the every Christian Armenian who were
[00:04:31] asked this question who answered that he
[00:04:34] will not convert to Islam were killed.
[00:04:38] >> That's amazing. And so that that kind of
[00:04:41] defines
[00:04:43] 20th century 21st century Armenian
[00:04:46] culture. You know, we we stood steadfast
[00:04:49] in our faith and were murdered for it.
[00:04:51] So Christianity is at the center of
[00:04:53] Armenian culture. Is that fair to say?
[00:04:55] >> Um it's the first nation who has ever
[00:04:59] converted to Christian in 301 was an
[00:05:02] Armenian kingdom.
[00:05:05] So in 3001
[00:05:06] >> before Constantine before the Roman
[00:05:08] Empire
[00:05:09] >> 11 years before Constantine before
[00:05:11] Medialan edict it was 312
[00:05:15] I guess uh Armenia like 11 years before
[00:05:20] he Armenian king Tati
[00:05:24] converted to Christian religion and
[00:05:27] convert all our population to Christian
[00:05:30] religion and we are the oldest eldest
[00:05:34] Christian nation in the world. That's
[00:05:37] why our church and our identity are so
[00:05:41] already it's the same thing. You know
[00:05:43] the 80% or 70% of our identity comes
[00:05:47] from Christian values and our church uh
[00:05:50] values of our church.
[00:05:53] Well, that's fascinating. Um and it's I
[00:05:56] mean the state of California where I'm
[00:05:57] originally from, you know, the Armenian
[00:05:59] community is very extremely successful
[00:06:02] but very cohesive. like they they have a
[00:06:05] sense of themselves um in a great way I
[00:06:07] think and that's why obviously so over
[00:06:12] the past 30 years Armenia has been
[00:06:14] involved in a number of conflicts really
[00:06:16] a sort of longunning sporadic war with
[00:06:17] Azaraijan which is an Islamic country
[00:06:20] >> yes
[00:06:21] >> um how many Armenians were killed in
[00:06:23] that war
[00:06:24] >> uh almost 20,000 people were killed for
[00:06:28] defending a Christian population of
[00:06:30] Nagorno Karabah
[00:06:31] >> y
[00:06:32] >> and at the end of the war the last war
[00:06:35] uh the Christian population of Nagura
[00:06:37] Karabak exceeded like we they everyone
[00:06:41] came to Armenia and now after 2,000
[00:06:44] years of living in this region there is
[00:06:47] no any Christian in region of Nagura
[00:06:49] Karabah so
[00:06:51] >> there are none
[00:06:52] >> there is no any
[00:06:55] >> what I don't understand is why nobody
[00:06:57] said anything as that was going on um
[00:07:00] and why Christian leaders in the west
[00:07:02] didn't say anything while that was going
[00:07:04] on that I heard
[00:07:06] >> I think it's a matter of real politics
[00:07:09] you know real politics we have a very we
[00:07:13] have allies with um like we have a very
[00:07:17] close relationship with Greek nation
[00:07:19] with Greece we have close relationship
[00:07:22] with Cyprus
[00:07:23] but even from there we
[00:07:28] had support but not you know the report
[00:07:32] was just with words not any actions. Uh
[00:07:36] I know that real politics and help of
[00:07:40] Turkey to Azerban
[00:07:43] uh make the many countries that were
[00:07:48] allies with us or were in a good
[00:07:50] relationship with us to avoid part
[00:07:52] >> they didn't want to get crossways with
[00:07:55] power powerful countries like Turkey. I
[00:07:57] understand that
[00:07:57] >> and this is what we have like this is uh
[00:08:00] the problem we face all over our history
[00:08:04] because the Armenian nation is in the
[00:08:07] center of a region where like Turkey,
[00:08:10] Azarbajan, Iran and the
[00:08:14] only religious only Christian nation of
[00:08:17] this from these three countries and
[00:08:20] always we had this oppression from the
[00:08:24] empires like Ottoman Empire There is
[00:08:26] Kajar Empire and other empires and the
[00:08:30] only thing made us to be unite and um to
[00:08:35] save our culture was the church and
[00:08:38] education from the church the schools
[00:08:41] that church was built all over the
[00:08:43] country to educate us to be Christian
[00:08:46] and to be an Armenian Christian.
[00:08:49] >> Streaming November 16th on Paramount
[00:08:51] Plus. It is the return of Landman a prod
[00:08:54] to the co-creator of Yellowstone. In the
[00:08:56] show's television's biggest phenomenon,
[00:08:58] and for good reason. Academy Award
[00:09:01] winner Billy Bob [music] Thornton is
[00:09:02] back as Tommy Norris and managing higher
[00:09:05] stakes than ever before. Featuring a
[00:09:07] loaded cast, including Academy Award
[00:09:09] nominees Demi Moore, Andy Garcia, Sam
[00:09:11] Elliot, Land Man is pretty exciting for
[00:09:15] a [music] TV show, honestly. In the wake
[00:09:17] of his former boss's passing, tensions
[00:09:19] come to a head as Tommy and Demi Moore
[00:09:21] Cammy Miller struggle to [music]
[00:09:23] maintain control of Mtex Oil, the
[00:09:28] company at the center of the drama. And
[00:09:30] with his father coming back into his
[00:09:32] life, Tommy must juggle both his [music]
[00:09:33] role as an oil man and a family man as
[00:09:37] worlds collide. A familiar story, but
[00:09:40] never better told than in this hit
[00:09:43] series. A lot of people are watching
[00:09:45] this and for good reason. Landman new
[00:09:46] season streaming November 16th only on
[00:09:49] Paramount Plus. I was and remain
[00:09:52] confused by the role of Israel in this
[00:09:55] in this war Azarbaian Islamic nation
[00:09:58] versus Armenia Christian nation and the
[00:10:02] cleansing of Christians for Carnabach
[00:10:04] that the region you just mentioned.
[00:10:06] Israel took a very aggressive position
[00:10:10] on the side of Azerbaijan against the
[00:10:12] Christians using American tax dollars to
[00:10:14] do it. So Israel was a participant in
[00:10:16] this war.
[00:10:17] >> Uh the participation Israel was the
[00:10:19] support of Azerbajan by weapon and it
[00:10:22] was a part of real politics. But you
[00:10:26] know the problem
[00:10:27] >> what what kind of weapons? drones like
[00:10:30] aircraft uh
[00:10:34] aircraft and other it's like u not just
[00:10:39] defense
[00:10:40] and attack
[00:10:41] >> but offensive weapons
[00:10:43] >> offensive
[00:10:44] >> Azarbaian received from Israel
[00:10:46] >> and the drones many of drones and many
[00:10:48] of the uh were operated by uh as we have
[00:10:54] read in media by operators from these
[00:10:57] companies of Israeli companies. Uh
[00:11:00] >> so wow. So you think there were Israeli
[00:11:04] drone operators.
[00:11:05] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because uh as many
[00:11:07] media told like it was in many magazines
[00:11:10] and that
[00:11:12] >> so that would mean that Israelis were
[00:11:15] killing Christians in this war with US
[00:11:17] tax. I mean because the Israeli defense
[00:11:20] sector is supported billions and
[00:11:22] billions a year by the United States.
[00:11:24] >> You know the issue is about the real
[00:11:26] politics. They were they are getting gas
[00:11:29] from Azerbaan. Gasoline
[00:11:31] >> gasoline they buy gasoline the I think
[00:11:33] the 70% of Israel gasoline is coming
[00:11:36] from Aarbajan and they have some type of
[00:11:40] economic ally they are allies
[00:11:42] economically
[00:11:45] the main issue is today real politics
[00:11:49] sometimes is like um make a big problem
[00:11:54] for the nations who wants to defend
[00:11:56] themselves alone in the regions we are
[00:11:59] minority
[00:12:01] Yeah, I I mean, of course, and that's
[00:12:03] how the world works. I just suppose from
[00:12:04] an American perspective, it's like, why
[00:12:06] are my tax dollars being used to murder
[00:12:08] Christians around the world, cleanse the
[00:12:10] Christians from Iraq, cleanse the
[00:12:11] Christians from Norno Carbobach, murder
[00:12:14] Armenian Christians, like why am I
[00:12:15] paying for this?
[00:12:16] >> It is a problem. It is a problem
[00:12:18] >> problem for me.
[00:12:19] >> Yeah. Um, so now you have u a lol in the
[00:12:24] fighting with Azarbaian, but you have a
[00:12:26] prime minister
[00:12:28] >> of Armenia who seems to be intent on
[00:12:32] destroying traditional Christianity or
[00:12:34] the church. Tell me what this is. Yeah,
[00:12:36] the after like last two three years
[00:12:40] after losing the war in Nagora Karabak
[00:12:43] and after make like all the people
[00:12:46] Christians from Nagorna Karabak have
[00:12:48] moved to Armenia, our new prime minister
[00:12:51] decides uh to
[00:12:54] uh have a better relationship with
[00:12:58] Azarbaijan, better relationship with
[00:13:00] everyone is always welcomed by Armenian
[00:13:03] society. We are okay with this. But what
[00:13:06] we feel we feel that uh Turkey or
[00:13:09] Azarbajan had a mission like made him uh
[00:13:13] to change the narratives of the church
[00:13:15] and he wants to change the narratives of
[00:13:17] the church to forget the issue of
[00:13:21] genocide, forget our history and our
[00:13:25] prime minister 6 months ago he started
[00:13:27] attack Armenian church and head of
[00:13:29] Armenian church. He wants to dethrone
[00:13:31] him and he wants to dethrone to change
[00:13:35] the structure of Armenian church that is
[00:13:37] like 1,700 years old because of taking
[00:13:41] control of uh the church. It's the main
[00:13:44] institution in our country like 90% 95%
[00:13:48] of our population are the members of
[00:13:50] Armenian apostolic church and when he
[00:13:54] started to attack uh against the church
[00:13:58] our society was shocked because nobody
[00:14:02] have done it before him even you know
[00:14:05] just at Ottoman time and many people in
[00:14:10] Armenian society they were against them
[00:14:12] against it But they couldn't say
[00:14:14] anything.
[00:14:15] >> Why? Because they were afraid of some
[00:14:17] oppression from the uh from government
[00:14:20] side. You know, Armenian is a democratic
[00:14:23] country. It's I think it's one of the
[00:14:25] last democratic countries in this
[00:14:27] region. In the last 30 years, we have
[00:14:29] elections. We have a new leaders. It's
[00:14:32] not authoritarian country. But this
[00:14:36] prime minister is evolves from
[00:14:39] democratic leader. Every year we see his
[00:14:42] changing to more authoritarian style of
[00:14:45] ruling be because of decreasing of his
[00:14:49] reputation in Armenia.
[00:14:52] And now he start he attacked the church.
[00:14:55] He took to prison three archbishops.
[00:14:58] >> He put archbishops in prison.
[00:15:00] >> Yeah. Archbishop for you to understand
[00:15:03] it's not shock. We were why the one of
[00:15:07] archbishop which took to prison because
[00:15:09] four years ago in an interview he said
[00:15:11] that this prime minister must be
[00:15:14] changed. The second arch bishop was
[00:15:18] in prison was taken to prison because of
[00:15:21] like three years ago or five years ago
[00:15:24] he went to a protest against the the
[00:15:28] prime minister
[00:15:29] and it's you know and nobody like from
[00:15:32] influential part of Armenian society
[00:15:35] everyone were afraid of to talk about
[00:15:37] this
[00:15:39] >> the you know the city everyone could
[00:15:42] talk who hadn't a business who hadn't
[00:15:45] influenced but influential part didn't
[00:15:48] want to do it and the one man who
[00:15:50] started talk about this was my uncle
[00:15:53] Samuel Carapitian
[00:15:55] he is the one of the wealthiest Armenian
[00:15:59] in the world so and biggest Armenian
[00:16:03] philanthropist of last 15 years 15 years
[00:16:07] he is the biggest philanthropist in
[00:16:09] Armenia so very many hospitals
[00:16:12] kindergartens schools
[00:16:15] And when he came to Armenia, he lives
[00:16:18] out of Armenia. He came to Armenia and
[00:16:20] at the 40 days of his father's grave,
[00:16:24] you know, and we have a tradition to go
[00:16:26] to church at at liturgy in 40 days of
[00:16:29] someone grave.
[00:16:31] >> Good for you. So when someone dies, an
[00:16:33] Armenian dies, the family mourns for 40
[00:16:35] days.
[00:16:36] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And goes to liturgy.
[00:16:38] And when he came to Armenia and he was
[00:16:41] in liturgy after liturgy after mass in
[00:16:44] the church, the journalist uh came to
[00:16:47] him and say what do you think about the
[00:16:49] attacks from the side of government
[00:16:53] uh attacks to the against the church and
[00:16:56] he said like it was 37 seconds. What can
[00:17:00] I think if a small group of people
[00:17:03] forgetting Armenian history, forgetting
[00:17:05] history of our church is attacking
[00:17:08] Armenian church and Armenian people. If
[00:17:11] the politician will not handle the
[00:17:14] situation, we will take part of handling
[00:17:18] it by ourself
[00:17:20] >> our way.
[00:17:20] >> Good.
[00:17:21] >> It was 37 seconds. Do you know what's go
[00:17:24] on after it?
[00:17:26] >> What happened? Like after 30 minutes of
[00:17:30] this interview, our prime minister
[00:17:34] posted in Facebook that this
[00:17:36] philanthropist must must shut his mouth.
[00:17:40] After 3 hour, he sent police special
[00:17:43] forces to a residence of Samuel
[00:17:46] Carapitian who is the most famous
[00:17:49] philanthropist of the country, you know.
[00:17:52] And everyone were shocked. We we were
[00:17:53] shocked too. And these police forces
[00:17:56] came to his residence without an judge
[00:17:58] order. Uh Armenia is a democratic
[00:18:02] country. We never saw something like
[00:18:04] this and everything was going on was
[00:18:07] like
[00:18:08] cameras showed everything. So everyone
[00:18:11] knows that there he said it 37 second
[00:18:16] then the prime minister was in
[00:18:17] parliament. He he posted something like
[00:18:20] this in Facebook and policemen came to
[00:18:23] the residence of Samuel Carapidian. But
[00:18:27] what happened then? The demonstrators
[00:18:30] came to the resident of Samuel Karapitan
[00:18:32] to
[00:18:34] uh to defend him. Thousands of people
[00:18:38] came to his house to defend him from
[00:18:42] police.
[00:18:44] And that day usually when police come
[00:18:48] like it's 5 minute to take someone to
[00:18:50] jail you know to police station it was
[00:18:53] 14 hour demonstrators
[00:18:57] didn't want to let him to go to police
[00:18:59] station and they were like bring order
[00:19:03] of judge we'll let the demonstrators
[00:19:07] told the policeman and then uh like he
[00:19:12] uh decide he decided to go himself to
[00:19:15] police station to not cause a clash
[00:19:17] between policemen and demonstrators
[00:19:21] and after that he was arrested and I was
[00:19:26] arrested too and my father his brother
[00:19:29] was arrested.
[00:19:30] >> What were you arrested for?
[00:19:31] >> I don't know. and uh with the
[00:19:33] >> just being his nephew
[00:19:34] >> uh just being there I don't know and I
[00:19:37] remember we were in police station 8
[00:19:40] hour and they were looking for an
[00:19:41] article to charge because there is no
[00:19:44] article in 37 seconds I remember
[00:19:48] investigator came to the room and say oh
[00:19:51] I phoned one article and then the other
[00:19:54] said no it doesn't work and at 7 hours
[00:19:57] they found an article and charge it that
[00:20:00] he said that the prime minister must be
[00:20:03] dethroned.
[00:20:05] But in this 37 second interview, you can
[00:20:08] watch it in YouTube. It's uh every
[00:20:11] everyone can do it. There were no any
[00:20:14] word about non prime minister and no
[00:20:17] anything. And he is now in jail
[00:20:19] >> still.
[00:20:20] >> They took him to jail five months and
[00:20:22] the jail name do you know what is the
[00:20:24] jail name?
[00:20:25] >> No.
[00:20:25] >> KGB basement. So there's like that old
[00:20:29] Soviet time communist time uh prison
[00:20:32] where the communist like send the people
[00:20:35] who were not agree with communist ideas
[00:20:38] and he's there in 12 square meters for
[00:20:41] defending the church and for this 37
[00:20:44] second he's still in jail.
[00:20:47] >> He's still in jail. Well, Grand Canyon
[00:20:49] University is not like most American
[00:20:51] colleges. It focuses on the things that
[00:20:53] actually matter. It is not a ripoff. It
[00:20:57] is the real thing. It's private,
[00:20:59] affordable, Christian university located
[00:21:01] in the heart of Phoenix. One of the
[00:21:03] largest universities in the country.
[00:21:04] Actually, at Grand Canyon University,
[00:21:06] education is more than academics. It is
[00:21:08] about opportunity. The chance for every
[00:21:10] student to live out the right to life,
[00:21:13] liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
[00:21:14] Rights are not given by the government.
[00:21:16] They were bestowed at birth, at
[00:21:18] conception, by God.
[00:21:20] That's just a fact. And Grand Canyon
[00:21:22] University is not going to lie to your
[00:21:24] kids and claim otherwise. It tells the
[00:21:26] truth. So, I know you're thinking, "A
[00:21:28] quality education is rare, so this
[00:21:31] probably costs a fortune. Colleges
[00:21:32] constantly jack up their costs. They
[00:21:34] probably do the same." Well, they don't.
[00:21:36] Actually,
[00:21:38] GCU has maintained the same tuition for
[00:21:41] 17 straight years. They're not in
[00:21:43] education to get rich at the expense of
[00:21:45] students. The whole thing is actually
[00:21:47] about learning. How refreshing. With
[00:21:50] flexible online classes, hybrid learning
[00:21:54] options, GCU offers 340 academic
[00:21:57] programs. Students benefit from a
[00:21:58] collaborative learning environment,
[00:21:59] dedicated faculty, personalized support
[00:22:01] to help them achieve their goals. The
[00:22:04] pursuit to serve is yours. Let it
[00:22:06] flourish. Find your purpose at Grand
[00:22:08] Canyon University. Private, Christian,
[00:22:11] affordable. gcu.edu.
[00:22:14] So this prime minister who's clearly a
[00:22:18] authoritarian
[00:22:20] by definition is against the church. So
[00:22:22] the idea is to break the back of
[00:22:25] Orthodox Christianity in of traditional
[00:22:28] Christianity in Armenia and to use the
[00:22:31] police to do it. Is this popular? Do
[00:22:34] people like this?
[00:22:35] >> It's very unpopular. like 90% of the
[00:22:40] population is against that and we
[00:22:43] population our society doesn't
[00:22:45] understand why he why he's doing that.
[00:22:49] >> So his agenda um he's so Armenia is a
[00:22:53] traditional country. Traditional
[00:22:54] families predominate.
[00:22:56] Um I noticed that the prime minister's
[00:22:58] wife was interviewed and said something
[00:23:01] to the effect that women in traditional
[00:23:03] families are all unhappy.
[00:23:05] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. uh he's you know he
[00:23:09] wants to change the society but with
[00:23:12] power not with soft power
[00:23:14] >> but the the way he wants to change the
[00:23:16] society is very familiar to Americans he
[00:23:19] is focusing on transgenderism is a good
[00:23:22] thing LGBTQ agenda whatever that is
[00:23:26] >> anti-traditionalism so not to the
[00:23:29] traditional families like you mustn't
[00:23:32] care about your son he must decide like
[00:23:35] what to do but if you what to do what
[00:23:37] who whether to become a woman or have
[00:23:39] sex with men or whatever.
[00:23:40] >> Uh no he hadn't said something like this
[00:23:43] but uh mostly he's against the
[00:23:45] traditional uh values. So everyone knows
[00:23:48] that he he has idea of changing our
[00:23:52] society but with
[00:23:54] >> to make it less Christian
[00:23:55] >> to make it less Christian. Yeah. Yeah. I
[00:23:58] guess yes.
[00:23:59] >> Who's supporting him in this? This has
[00:24:02] happened in every country in the west.
[00:24:04] almost every country in the every
[00:24:05] country in the west
[00:24:07] >> with varying degrees of success. But who
[00:24:09] is who's behind that? Who's pushing
[00:24:12] this?
[00:24:12] >> Who is behind that in every country in
[00:24:14] the west?
[00:24:15] >> Yeah, that's a good question.
[00:24:16] >> Is the is the same people who is doing
[00:24:20] it in Armenia, they are doing it here,
[00:24:23] too, I guess.
[00:24:23] >> Oh, and they've been extremely
[00:24:24] successful. I mean, they've destroyed
[00:24:27] uh, you know, our social fabric with
[00:24:29] this. Uh, but who are those people? Who
[00:24:32] is Let's just stick with Armenia. Who's
[00:24:33] who's supporting this prime minister?
[00:24:35] The population doesn't support him. who
[00:24:37] is
[00:24:38] >> you know u I think the main issue uh
[00:24:42] when we thought why he is doing it
[00:24:45] against the church
[00:24:47] uh
[00:24:49] we think that he get some uh information
[00:24:53] from Turkey and Azerban that you must
[00:24:57] change the narrative of the church to
[00:25:00] forget the genocide
[00:25:02] uh and to have a new head of church for
[00:25:06] being for going to a peace deal between
[00:25:09] Armenia and Azarbajan and Azerbajan. And
[00:25:13] we feel that he wants to change the head
[00:25:17] of church to change then he will change
[00:25:19] the narrative of the church and to make
[00:25:22] our people to forget all our like
[00:25:26] ancestors have done for our Christian
[00:25:28] religion and for being an Armenian. And
[00:25:33] this is the uh thing that we must you
[00:25:37] know show our societies that this is the
[00:25:42] way they work. They want to destroy all
[00:25:45] the historical truth for some reasons.
[00:25:50] The reason is to be in peace but we
[00:25:53] can't we are very welcome to be in
[00:25:56] peace. But these people one and a half
[00:26:00] million people were killed already. They
[00:26:02] were killed for their religion. We must
[00:26:04] the Ottoman Empire must accept it. The
[00:26:07] Ottoman Turks or Turks must accept it
[00:26:11] because after that we will live in a
[00:26:14] more peaceful region.
[00:26:17] >> Anyone who's forcing you to lie about
[00:26:19] history is your enemy. And of course,
[00:26:21] the purpose is always to maintain power.
[00:26:24] Right.
[00:26:24] >> Yeah.
[00:26:24] >> Right.
[00:26:25] >> Whoever controls the story, the past
[00:26:28] >> Yeah.
[00:26:28] >> controls the future. Of course. That's
[00:26:30] why Wikipedia exists to to lie to us
[00:26:33] about the past. So, um, last question.
[00:26:35] Th
[00:26:37] this is I mean, by any definition, a
[00:26:40] grotesque human rights violation. You're
[00:26:43] arresting Christian clergy
[00:26:45] because you don't like their theological
[00:26:48] views and you don't like their views of
[00:26:50] history, so you throw them in prison.
[00:26:52] How many Christian churches in the West
[00:26:56] have weighed in on this? have supported
[00:26:59] the clergy under arrest have put
[00:27:01] pressure on the Armenian Armenian prime
[00:27:03] minister to stop arresting Christian
[00:27:05] clergy like how much support are you
[00:27:06] getting from the west?
[00:27:07] >> We are getting support from the west
[00:27:09] from the churches.
[00:27:10] >> You are.
[00:27:11] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. there is a huge
[00:27:14] uh support and we are appreciate for for
[00:27:17] this and I want to tell you uh one more
[00:27:21] thing like why these people are brave
[00:27:26] when they are going like against the
[00:27:29] government's ideas the my uncle Samuel
[00:27:32] Garabidian and the clergy they could be
[00:27:35] realized like tomorrow if they say that
[00:27:39] they will not defend the church.
[00:27:43] >> It's always the same story, isn't it?
[00:27:45] >> Yeah.
[00:27:45] >> So, my uncle, we had like they wanted
[00:27:48] want to confiscate his businesses in
[00:27:51] Armenia. He knows it, but he is he wants
[00:27:55] to defend the church after that that
[00:27:59] too. So, he's continuing to defend the
[00:28:02] church. And this is the idea. These are
[00:28:05] the persons with whom we must I think we
[00:28:09] must learn something because
[00:28:12] um it's like in uh first it's like in
[00:28:17] 20th century when this Armenian our our
[00:28:20] ancestors were sacrificed in Ottoman
[00:28:22] Empire for their religion. Uh I am proud
[00:28:25] that Samuel Karabitan is he can be free
[00:28:31] he can be with his business but he
[00:28:34] doesn't do this for his religion cuz
[00:28:37] religion and faith matters you know for
[00:28:41] it's important like the first Christian
[00:28:44] in first century they were oppressed but
[00:28:47] they fought for their religion and this
[00:28:50] is the case
[00:28:53] faces. Now,
[00:28:55] >> it's it's inspiring to watch. It's it's
[00:28:57] upsetting to watch at the same time. So,
[00:29:00] Godspeed. Thank you for telling us that
[00:29:01] story. Too few people know. And it's
[00:29:04] >> it's not just about Armenia, of course.
[00:29:06] It's a it's a global push.
[00:29:08] >> Yeah.
[00:29:08] >> Against this one specific religion,
[00:29:10] against Jesus. So, that's what they
[00:29:12] hate.
[00:29:12] >> Thank you very much. Thank you.
[00:29:13] >> Thank you for doing this. I appreciate
[00:29:14] it.
[00:29:14] >> How often do you give a present to a
[00:29:16] loved one that deep down you know that
[00:29:18] person despises or will never use
[00:29:21] anyway? It's happened. Of course. So, it
[00:29:24] feels good to check the box and cross
[00:29:25] them off the list, but wouldn't you feel
[00:29:27] better if you given them something they
[00:29:28] actually loved? Yeah, Cozy Earth could
[00:29:32] be the solution for you. Anyone who gets
[00:29:34] Cozy Earth's bamboo pajamas,
[00:29:37] bamboo pajamas, which are not stiff and
[00:29:39] wooden, they're actually soft and
[00:29:40] awesome. Anyone who gets those is going
[00:29:42] to be psyched. Soft, lightweight, cool
[00:29:45] to the touch. Bamboo pajamas. Cozy Earth
[00:29:49] offers that rare mix of [music] cozy and
[00:29:50] breathable so you're always comfortable.
[00:29:52] You don't overheat. They make blankets
[00:29:54] the same way. Plush, textured,
[00:29:56] ridiculously soft, next level blankets.
[00:29:58] If you don't believe it, Cozy Earth
[00:29:59] backs its bedding and bath products with
[00:30:01] a 100 night sleep trial and 10-year
[00:30:04] warranty for pajamas. Who puts a 10-year
[00:30:08] warranty on pajamas? Not a lot of
[00:30:10] companies. Cozyear does. Black Friday is
[00:30:12] here early at cozyear.com. Use the code
[00:30:14] Tucker on top of their sitewide sale for
[00:30:17] up to 40% off for big savings before the
[00:30:20] holidays. Visit cozyearth.com. Use the
[00:30:23] code Tucker and give gifts that people
[00:30:26] actually love. And if you get a
[00:30:28] post-purchase survey, don't forget to
[00:30:29] mention you heard about them from this
[00:30:31] show.
[00:30:34] Bob Amsterdam, as always, one of the
[00:30:38] people that I talk to most off camera
[00:30:41] about what is happening to the Christian
[00:30:44] population of the world. It's kind of
[00:30:46] amazing. Um, thank you for doing this.
[00:30:48] >> So, uh, the situation in Armenia, the
[00:30:52] government of Armenia persecuting the
[00:30:54] church. How is this happening without
[00:30:57] more international comment? Look,
[00:30:59] Tucker, as you and I have discussed, I
[00:31:01] do not understand the evangelical
[00:31:05] movement, the Christian movement in the
[00:31:06] United States. One thing I want to say,
[00:31:08] and I I I won't make many friends by
[00:31:11] saying it. In the United States,
[00:31:14] Christianity has been subsumed by the
[00:31:16] State Department. Uh the US government
[00:31:19] decides what Christians we support and
[00:31:22] what Christians we don't. So, in uh
[00:31:25] Armenia, there's going to be a prayer
[00:31:27] breakfast. And I want you to understand,
[00:31:29] there's going to be a prayer breakfast
[00:31:31] while my client Samuel Carropetian is in
[00:31:35] jail. Archbishops have been jailed.
[00:31:39] Clerics have been jailed. The leader of
[00:31:42] the country is trying to split the
[00:31:44] church by going to services of a
[00:31:46] defrocked priest. A man who has said he
[00:31:49] is going to remove the leader of the
[00:31:51] church. This man is being fetted by
[00:31:55] American Christians in Yeravan, Armenia.
[00:32:00] A man who calls clerics prostitutes.
[00:32:03] A man who uses language that at my
[00:32:07] advanced age I've never heard a leader
[00:32:09] use against leaders of the church. And
[00:32:13] yet,
[00:32:15] shockingly, this prayer breakfast is
[00:32:18] going to go on. And I call it a
[00:32:20] reputation laundering breakfast. Uh the
[00:32:22] US government allows this to go on. Uh
[00:32:26] and and
[00:32:27] >> what connection is there between the US
[00:32:28] State Department and the prayer
[00:32:29] breakfast?
[00:32:30] >> Look, I can't exactly tell you. I'm not
[00:32:34] privy to the arrangements, but as I've
[00:32:37] seen in representing the Ukrainian
[00:32:39] church, um the prayer breakfast and and
[00:32:42] religious freedom all seem to follow a
[00:32:45] script outlined by the state department
[00:32:48] and um you know there's a lot of
[00:32:50] pressure from the administration on
[00:32:53] peace uh in terms of Armenia and
[00:32:56] Azerbashan which of course all of us
[00:32:59] welcome but it's it's happened at a
[00:33:02] tremendous cost to the people of
[00:33:04] Armenia. There's tremendous cultural and
[00:33:07] and church relics that are being lost
[00:33:10] and defiled. There's 120,000 who have
[00:33:14] been cleansed from Azer Bjan. Uh and no
[00:33:18] thought has been given to this. We have
[00:33:19] 23 Christian hostages in Baku and the
[00:33:24] prime minister of
[00:33:27] Armenia did not even speak of them when
[00:33:30] he was with President Trump. President
[00:33:32] Trump raised them. I mean, it is
[00:33:35] shocking how Armenia has a prime
[00:33:37] minister who seems to resent his own
[00:33:40] history as an Armenian.
[00:33:43] They've they've taken Mount Ararat off
[00:33:46] stamps. They've they don't talk about
[00:33:49] the genocide. They attack the church.
[00:33:51] The leader of the country wants to
[00:33:53] remove and appoint the Catholicus. Well,
[00:33:57] of course, he doesn't understand what an
[00:33:58] apostolic church is. To be an apostolic
[00:34:02] church, listen to this Jew tell you
[00:34:04] about apostolic churches. You have to
[00:34:07] have a connection to the first apostles,
[00:34:10] which means your election must be
[00:34:12] sanctified by bishops, by leaders of the
[00:34:15] church, not a political figure. He he is
[00:34:19] shockingly ignorant of his own religion.
[00:34:23] >> It sounds like it's not his religion. I
[00:34:24] mean, it sounds like he's not a
[00:34:25] believer. Well, I you know I I never
[00:34:27] will say that about someone. I don't I
[00:34:29] agree.
[00:34:29] >> I don't know him. But what I will tell
[00:34:32] you is our State Department um has has
[00:34:36] lost the meaning of faith. They have
[00:34:39] instrumentalized
[00:34:40] religion as a tool of foreign policy.
[00:34:43] Exactly what we accuse the Russians of
[00:34:45] doing. We have done it. Uh thank God our
[00:34:48] people don't bless tanks the way uh
[00:34:51] Bishop Kir did in Russia. But uh this
[00:34:56] this support of governments and and
[00:34:59] we're seeing it in this prayer breakfast
[00:35:01] traveling to a country like Armenia with
[00:35:04] top leaders of the Christian religion in
[00:35:08] particular uh and and doing all of this
[00:35:12] while we have clerics and I have a
[00:35:14] client in jail and I feel very personal
[00:35:16] about this because I was able to defend
[00:35:20] this client in an Armenian court. I want
[00:35:23] to thank the Armenian bar for allowing
[00:35:25] me to actually speak in defense of the
[00:35:28] client directly with an interpreter. I
[00:35:30] was able to deal with the court myself
[00:35:33] and and I thought effectively portray
[00:35:35] the absolute farce that this trial was
[00:35:39] and that these charges were with respect
[00:35:41] to Samuel Carpetan who is an absolutely
[00:35:45] unbelievably
[00:35:47] principled Christian who is is now
[00:35:50] sitting in his fifth month in jail
[00:35:53] innocent of everything other than
[00:35:56] praising God and that's why he's in
[00:35:58] jail. I just I know I've asked you this
[00:36:00] before, maybe not as pointedly as I will
[00:36:02] now, but how did this fall to you? How
[00:36:04] did you I think grew up pretty liberal
[00:36:06] or left-wing Jewish guy wind up being
[00:36:10] like the world's one of the world's
[00:36:12] foremost defenders
[00:36:14] of persecuted Christians? Like how did
[00:36:16] that happen?
[00:36:17] >> Well, well, firstly, as a Jew,
[00:36:20] I am an inclusive person. I I if
[00:36:23] somebody has faith in God, almost any
[00:36:26] God, I respect that. I feel the same way
[00:36:29] and um I was raised by uh a family that
[00:36:35] was deeply impacted by the Holocaust. Uh
[00:36:38] I have traveled all my life. I have
[00:36:41] sought refuge uh during riots or
[00:36:44] whatnot, whether it be in churches or
[00:36:45] mosques. I I just never feel proprietary
[00:36:50] and and and feel that all men of faith
[00:36:53] have a commonality to it. Um, I've been
[00:36:57] involved with the Orthodox Church since
[00:36:59] I was a young man. Uh, we did a case
[00:37:02] against the Soviet Union, which a
[00:37:05] colleague of mine, Re Mlan, did the most
[00:37:08] most of the work on, but Dean Peroff and
[00:37:10] I were young lawyers together. and he
[00:37:13] was a member of the Macedono Bulgarian
[00:37:15] Orthodox Church and I took on that case
[00:37:19] 45 years ago trying to fight uh a Soviet
[00:37:23] attempt at uh taking control of a church
[00:37:26] and since that time I've always had an
[00:37:28] interest in in these issues and when as
[00:37:31] you know I was approached by the
[00:37:32] Ukrainian church and now by Carapetan in
[00:37:36] the Armenian uh church context it just
[00:37:39] seems very natural as a Jew to defend
[00:37:42] been children of Christ.
[00:37:44] >> So it's it's just an amazing story.
[00:37:46] Thank you, by the way, for doing it. Um,
[00:37:49] so what is the latest? You have been the
[00:37:52] defender of the church uh in Ukraine,
[00:37:55] the Orthodox Church in Ukraine, which is
[00:37:57] under like almost unbelievable
[00:37:59] persecution by the government with the
[00:38:01] help of the United States. What where
[00:38:04] are we now?
[00:38:05] >> You know, I want to be very clear,
[00:38:06] Tucker. When you say persecution, that
[00:38:09] doesn't that doesn't sum it up. I'm
[00:38:11] talking about torture. I'm talking about
[00:38:14] the theft of churches. I'm talking about
[00:38:17] >> This is not just we're cutting off
[00:38:18] funding torture. The
[00:38:20] >> I have pictures. I have videos. There's
[00:38:23] a trial going on in England where the
[00:38:25] Ukrainians are trying to ship back a
[00:38:28] former member of parliament of Ukraine
[00:38:30] whose crime was uh to speak out for the
[00:38:34] church. Uh they on the day they passed
[00:38:39] this horrendous bill to ban the
[00:38:41] Ukrainian Orthodox Church, a bill that I
[00:38:45] would say has no comparison in Europe
[00:38:49] since the Nuremberg laws.
[00:38:52] When they passed this bill to ban this
[00:38:54] church, this man had the courage to
[00:38:56] stand up in the Rada in their parliament
[00:38:59] to denounce it.
[00:39:02] For that, uh Zalinsky and Yermac pulled
[00:39:04] his security
[00:39:06] knowing that his statements would be
[00:39:08] highly controversial and perhaps deadly,
[00:39:11] um he realized that there was basically
[00:39:13] a death warrant, he fled the country on
[00:39:17] foot through a forest, made it to the UK
[00:39:21] within 14 days of arrival in the UK.
[00:39:24] They were trying to extradite him back
[00:39:27] to Ukraine because for some hooliganism
[00:39:30] charge and you know, fortunate for him,
[00:39:32] I knew him. I knew when I had met him in
[00:39:36] Ukraine, when I had been there, that he
[00:39:38] had evidence of torture. We're now
[00:39:40] taking that evidence of torture to the
[00:39:42] courts. Ukraine is a one party, one
[00:39:46] person autocratic state that has no
[00:39:50] comparison to any democratic values.
[00:39:54] Rather, today is a mirror of the old
[00:39:58] Soviet Union. The man in charge of
[00:40:01] religious affairs is an apparatic who
[00:40:05] wrote an anti-Jewish
[00:40:08] screed 20 years ago. He's the head of
[00:40:10] religious affairs. And by the way,
[00:40:11] >> sorry to laugh. This is so crazy.
[00:40:13] >> By the way, hold on. Let me let me go a
[00:40:14] step crazier. He was a keynote speaker
[00:40:17] at the religious freedom conference held
[00:40:20] in Washington.
[00:40:22] >> What?
[00:40:23] >> Yes. His name is Yalinski. He was a
[00:40:25] keynote speaker. This is a man who
[00:40:28] spends his life trying to destroy the
[00:40:31] Orthodox Church and transfer it into
[00:40:33] what is essentially the OCU, a state
[00:40:36] church. He's a keynote speaker at a
[00:40:39] religious freedom conference in
[00:40:41] Washington where there is a happy hour
[00:40:44] sponsored by the Ukrainian government
[00:40:47] where there are men in Ukrainian army
[00:40:50] uniforms walking around.
[00:40:52] >> This happened in Washington DC.
[00:40:53] >> Yes, a number of times. And this is all
[00:40:57] going on while I on behalf of the
[00:40:59] Ukrainian Orthodox Church, we can't get
[00:41:01] an interview in any press in the United
[00:41:03] States. Censorship exists in this
[00:41:05] country.
[00:41:06] >> Yes.
[00:41:07] >> And when we got any coverage, it wasn't
[00:41:10] to cover the outrage in Ukraine. It was
[00:41:12] to taint me as some form of Russian
[00:41:15] agent. A guy who was arrested by Putin,
[00:41:18] whose friends were murdered by Putin. I
[00:41:20] am tainted as some Russian agent for
[00:41:23] speaking out against this
[00:41:25] criminalization of Christianity that's
[00:41:27] going on in Ukraine. And by the way,
[00:41:30] supported by pastors who are very close
[00:41:32] to the White House. And I don't fault
[00:41:34] them.
[00:41:34] >> Wait, it's supported by American
[00:41:36] pastors.
[00:41:37] >> Yes.
[00:41:38] >> They don't know. I mean, essentially,
[00:41:41] the Ukrainians are masters of
[00:41:43] disinformation. Absolute masters. They
[00:41:46] have their own uh sort of captive cells
[00:41:50] of religious leaders who are told
[00:41:52] essentially look we have uh you know
[00:41:55] black PR against you if you don't follow
[00:41:57] what's going on and you don't support us
[00:42:01] will take you down. I mean the former
[00:42:03] president of Ukraine is under indictment
[00:42:06] for treason. Noki who you've interviewed
[00:42:10] under indictment for treason. They've
[00:42:12] done nothing treasonous. They just
[00:42:15] represent alternative areas of
[00:42:18] independent thinking. In Ninsk's case, a
[00:42:21] religious man who supported the church.
[00:42:24] But they have sanctioned him. They have
[00:42:26] tried to destroy him. And of course they
[00:42:29] are within a hair's breath of taking
[00:42:33] down the church, a thousand-year-old
[00:42:35] church, destroying it, taking the
[00:42:38] priests out of it, removing all the
[00:42:40] churches, transferring it to the state
[00:42:42] church of the OCU, which essentially is
[00:42:46] a cutout of the presidential
[00:42:48] administration.
[00:42:50] >> This is it's it's hard to So we first
[00:42:52] spoke maybe two years ago.
[00:42:54] >> Yes.
[00:42:55] And I was shocked by what you said at
[00:42:57] the time, which is the government of
[00:42:59] Zalinski is trying to eliminate
[00:43:02] traditional Christianity, the
[00:43:03] traditional church of Ukraine. And I
[00:43:06] thought, boy, you know, when people find
[00:43:08] out about this, cuz whatever you think
[00:43:09] of Zilinsky or Putin, certainly Putin,
[00:43:11] you can hate Putin and still be appalled
[00:43:12] by this, of course. I thought, wow, it's
[00:43:15] going to stop like that once people
[00:43:17] know. But it it just kept accelerating.
[00:43:20] And I still haven't heard a single I'm
[00:43:21] sure there have been, but I haven't
[00:43:22] heard any American Christian leader say
[00:43:25] anything about this.
[00:43:26] >> Look, what is that?
[00:43:28] >> I I will tell you that J. D. Vance when
[00:43:32] he was a senator and no one frankly knew
[00:43:36] him from Oshkosh gave a statement in the
[00:43:39] Senate for which I thank him every day
[00:43:41] in my prayers. um that has kept I think
[00:43:44] it's one of the key things I think you
[00:43:47] JD Vance and there are two young members
[00:43:50] of the young Republicans
[00:43:54] uh Katherine um Witford uh who is a a
[00:43:58] co-chair of the national young
[00:44:00] Republicans and is is orthodox is
[00:44:03] actually leading a day of action and she
[00:44:06] has a colleague as well who who is who
[00:44:09] is leading this those young people have
[00:44:13] been uh along with with our vice
[00:44:15] president now the only sources of of uh
[00:44:20] support we've had.
[00:44:21] >> What about Franklin Graham?
[00:44:23] >> He is speaking in Yeravan.
[00:44:26] >> What does that mean?
[00:44:26] >> He is the keynote at the prayer
[00:44:29] breakfast in Yeravan, Armenia.
[00:44:31] >> With the prime minister who's putting
[00:44:34] clergy in jail.
[00:44:35] >> Yes.
[00:44:36] >> How does that work? I listen I am it may
[00:44:40] surprise you to know I am not working in
[00:44:42] evangelical circles. I have no idea.
[00:44:44] >> I'm not either but I'm very sympathetic
[00:44:46] to the idea you know to evangelical
[00:44:48] people great people and I'm not against
[00:44:50] Franklin Graham but I'm just shocked
[00:44:52] that Franklin Graham would
[00:44:54] >> I don't know you know having certainly
[00:44:56] being aware of him. I I I have no idea
[00:44:58] if he knows. I I think um because our
[00:45:02] government has decided as has the EU
[00:45:04] frankly uh that uh they are going to go
[00:45:08] with the so they know um I I think the
[00:45:12] silence of the government uh is
[00:45:15] something that everybody takes as
[00:45:17] permission and I'm sure Franklin Graham
[00:45:19] is not aware that
[00:45:21] >> Franklin I mean you would think and I
[00:45:22] don't mean to focus on Franklin Graham
[00:45:24] I'm sure he's a nice person or I don't
[00:45:27] really don't know what he's like but I'm
[00:45:28] not against him. But has he said
[00:45:30] anything about what Zilinski is doing to
[00:45:32] the church in Ukraine that you're aware
[00:45:33] of?
[00:45:34] >> No. No. No. I I I honestly am in shock
[00:45:38] at
[00:45:39] the silence of the media in the United
[00:45:42] States and the silence of of the
[00:45:45] Christian
[00:45:47] community to what's happened. I mean,
[00:45:50] uh, thanks to Candi Straoud, who you and
[00:45:52] I both know,
[00:45:53] >> great person. I'm uh I'm I've been on
[00:45:56] radio
[00:45:58] everywhere I can. But um you know the
[00:46:02] Ukrainian effort in Washington
[00:46:05] and with media is masterful. They have
[00:46:08] their own people and key media who
[00:46:10] continued to write puffy articles about
[00:46:12] them. Um never a criticism. The first
[00:46:17] time it ever came up that I saw was the
[00:46:20] protests over corruption a few weeks
[00:46:23] ago, which led people here to scratch
[00:46:26] their head and say, "Well, Christ, if if
[00:46:28] Zalinski is so uh clean, how could he be
[00:46:32] trying to wipe out the anti-corruption
[00:46:35] uh independents?" And and that was an
[00:46:38] eyeopener to some. But uh you know in
[00:46:42] the UK we wrote to the government to say
[00:46:45] why aren't you doing something about the
[00:46:48] church and they wrote back and said
[00:46:50] everything's great. Everything's great.
[00:46:52] Everything's great. I mean the UK
[00:46:55] government is is more hardline about
[00:46:58] Ukraine than Ukraine. I they the
[00:47:01] reaction of Europeans understand Germany
[00:47:04] is imploding because of of this war. I
[00:47:08] know.
[00:47:08] >> Um
[00:47:11] >> it was obvious that it would four years
[00:47:12] ago. It was obvious the second it
[00:47:14] started saying this is going to destroy
[00:47:15] Germany which is
[00:47:17] really the economy of Europe.
[00:47:19] >> And let's say something else. It's going
[00:47:20] to radicalize Germany.
[00:47:22] >> Well, that is that is deep and that is
[00:47:24] scary.
[00:47:25] >> That is it's coming
[00:47:26] >> and and and as a Jew that is a very
[00:47:29] scary thing to witness,
[00:47:30] >> but it's it's inevitable. It's going to
[00:47:32] radicalize all of Europe. I mean, how
[00:47:34] could it not? Like Yeah. and and and and
[00:47:37] I will say to you that the um the
[00:47:42] behavior of the press has been the most
[00:47:43] disappointing to me because I've worked
[00:47:46] with the press when I was fighting Putin
[00:47:49] in the early 2000s uh on behalf of uh
[00:47:53] one of his key opponents. Uh I had the
[00:47:55] press with me and we would do
[00:47:58] interviews. It would it was constant.
[00:48:01] But now that um St. Zalinski
[00:48:05] um is starting to show a few cracks in
[00:48:08] the visage. There's still nothing about
[00:48:12] this ongoing
[00:48:14] torture and use of secret police to
[00:48:17] destroy a church. Nothing. What is that
[00:48:22] exactly? Like why most Americans,
[00:48:25] including certainly most reporters, most
[00:48:27] people in the media had never heard of
[00:48:29] Zalinski until this war started. They
[00:48:31] had no they couldn't identify him. And
[00:48:34] immediately after it started, the
[00:48:35] loyalty to him, you know, blinded them
[00:48:39] to his faults, induced them to lie to
[00:48:42] the public in America about what was
[00:48:43] happening. I mean, they just became
[00:48:44] shills for Zilinsky in like one day.
[00:48:47] How? Why? What is that? Well,
[00:48:49] >> it's interesting because we did a study.
[00:48:51] We looked at media in the United States
[00:48:54] because one of the things that's
[00:48:55] frightening about the churches that are
[00:48:58] being taken in Ukraine is that very
[00:49:01] often the people who take them and beat
[00:49:03] up parishioners and and break the heads
[00:49:06] of priests, those people have swastikas
[00:49:10] on their arms.
[00:49:10] >> Yeah, I noticed. So, we found out that
[00:49:15] the New York Times and other papers had
[00:49:18] been profiling the rise of the right in
[00:49:21] Ukraine right up until the war. Now, the
[00:49:25] AOV battalion, which is basically a
[00:49:28] neo-Nazi battalion, has almost taken
[00:49:31] over command and control in the Ukraine.
[00:49:34] Uh and you know this is an ultraist
[00:49:39] government right now that is pushing a
[00:49:43] very radical line but no one is covering
[00:49:48] it. But what do you have any guesses as
[00:49:50] to and I should say you've been in and
[00:49:52] out of that region for over 50 years.
[00:49:54] You know well you know a lot I mean I
[00:49:56] just for I could go on about your
[00:49:58] background but I would just ask viewers
[00:50:00] to look you up or to take my word for
[00:50:02] it. you know what you're talking about
[00:50:04] and what you're saying is true,
[00:50:08] but why would the media again do that?
[00:50:13] Why are they defending actual Nazis?
[00:50:15] Like what? That's how deep their
[00:50:17] commitment is to Zilinski. So what is
[00:50:18] that? What is that commitment? Where
[00:50:19] does it come from?
[00:50:20] >> Well, you know, it's funny because um
[00:50:23] Zalinsky made all his money in Russia.
[00:50:26] >> Yeah, I know. and yet he's in charge of
[00:50:28] a government that's debasing any
[00:50:31] guarantees of of language rights for
[00:50:33] Russian speakers inside Ukraine. Um, and
[00:50:38] the the sanctification of him relates in
[00:50:42] my mind to two things. One, we have a a
[00:50:47] total
[00:50:48] breakdown in elite politics in in Europe
[00:50:52] and to some extent uh in the United
[00:50:55] States.
[00:50:55] >> Yes. Um
[00:50:58] and and secondly,
[00:51:00] I you know, I stopped playing the market
[00:51:03] when I was 21, but I certainly remember,
[00:51:07] you know, making a bet and watching it
[00:51:10] crash and then think I've got to double
[00:51:12] down to to lower my cost in.
[00:51:15] >> Exactly.
[00:51:16] >> And I think that's what's kind of
[00:51:18] happened here. I understand the first
[00:51:21] one or the second one. I think you're
[00:51:23] exactly right. Like I was all in from
[00:51:25] the beginning. I can't get out now.
[00:51:26] >> Yes.
[00:51:27] >> Double down. And I sort of understand
[00:51:30] what you mean about the degradation of
[00:51:31] elite politics, but can you put a finer
[00:51:33] point on that?
[00:51:34] >> Well, you know, look at the UK. I mean,
[00:51:38] I love the UK.
[00:51:39] >> Yes.
[00:51:40] >> We have a government that is wildly
[00:51:43] incompetent.
[00:51:45] They even know they're incompetent. Uh
[00:51:47] we're going to have a budget that's
[00:51:49] going to destroy what's left of the
[00:51:50] middle class. Uh look at France.
[00:51:53] complete chaos right now. Complete loss
[00:51:56] of direction. Um Italy struggling
[00:52:02] struggling but with Maloney there's
[00:52:04] there's some sort of strength there. But
[00:52:07] many of the other countries of course
[00:52:09] Spain Spain is now uh you may not be
[00:52:13] aware I'm I'm fighting Spain in a big
[00:52:15] way against their tax administration. We
[00:52:18] just outed in a press conference last
[00:52:20] week the fact that Spain is using Huawei
[00:52:23] computers to store tax information for
[00:52:26] Americans.
[00:52:26] >> Not really.
[00:52:27] >> Yes. And not only they doing that, but
[00:52:30] they have this discriminatory policy
[00:52:32] towards Americans. They have 50,000
[00:52:35] Americans. They have hundreds of
[00:52:37] thousands foreigners. They're doing
[00:52:38] discriminatory tax audits and basically
[00:52:41] stealing stealing the money from
[00:52:43] foreigners to try to subsidize a a
[00:52:46] government that is the most corrupt
[00:52:48] government I've seen since Papa Doc
[00:52:50] Duvalier. I think something like 21
[00:52:53] indictments, the prime minister's wife,
[00:52:56] his brother, the the general prosecutor.
[00:52:59] I mean, what's going on in Spain is is
[00:53:02] unexplored territory in the United
[00:53:03] States, and people don't seem to have
[00:53:05] any interest in finding zero. This is a
[00:53:07] vacation spot.
[00:53:08] >> And the the king is flying to China
[00:53:12] because Sanchez is allin with China,
[00:53:16] >> of course,
[00:53:17] >> and Venezuela. So, uh, it's it's
[00:53:20] astounding and the rule of law is under
[00:53:23] such attack there that the EU is quietly
[00:53:27] sending a commission to investigate in
[00:53:30] January because everybody in Europe
[00:53:32] knows rule of law is dead in Spain. So,
[00:53:35] it's it's frightening what's going on
[00:53:38] there. And and this is what I mean about
[00:53:40] the sort of calcification of the ruling
[00:53:42] elite. So, but what is that? as that
[00:53:45] just a now I'm asking you I'm luring you
[00:53:47] into philosophy but I'm very interested
[00:53:50] and I agree with everything you said
[00:53:52] it's observable it's provable but where
[00:53:54] does it come from is it a natural cycle
[00:53:57] or is it something else you know um
[00:54:02] the cost of being a politician are so
[00:54:05] high the reputational costs um are so
[00:54:09] high and the uh materialistic nature
[00:54:14] of of all of us now. Uh the loss of
[00:54:18] ideology, the loss of principles, the
[00:54:21] loss of faith. Um this leads to a a loss
[00:54:26] in terms of the quality of people
[00:54:27] entering politics.
[00:54:29] >> That's right. and and you have a chaotic
[00:54:32] world situation
[00:54:34] which uh you know there's a lot of fear
[00:54:38] um and it it leads to a completely
[00:54:42] transactional foreign policy and more
[00:54:46] and more states are engaging in this
[00:54:48] transactional policies as opposed to
[00:54:51] following any form of ideological
[00:54:53] policy.
[00:54:56] So it it sounds like a part of a cycle
[00:54:58] then just as politics becomes less
[00:55:02] productive therefore more reviled by the
[00:55:04] population. These are supposedly
[00:55:06] democratic countries or not really but
[00:55:07] they still have the skin suit and people
[00:55:10] are mad at the political class. So that
[00:55:13] means that only the worst people join
[00:55:14] the political class.
[00:55:16] >> Right? And yet fascinating what I'm
[00:55:19] seeing in in watching um the Orthodox
[00:55:25] community, the the Christian Orthodox
[00:55:27] community and the Jewish community, the
[00:55:30] Jewish community as a result of this
[00:55:32] horrible growth of anti-semitism, the
[00:55:34] Orthodox community as a result of the
[00:55:38] woke nature of many Christian uh
[00:55:41] churches is that those who are
[00:55:44] fundamental in their faith are growing.
[00:55:47] Orthodox Christianity is growing at a
[00:55:50] massive rate.
[00:55:51] >> Oh yeah,
[00:55:52] >> massive.
[00:55:53] >> I'm sure Orthodox Judaism is too.
[00:55:55] >> Yeah. Because people are clinging to
[00:55:57] real values.
[00:55:58] >> That's right.
[00:55:59] >> And and in [clears throat] Europe, you
[00:56:02] know, quite frankly, uh it's very very
[00:56:05] hard to find inspiration. In the United
[00:56:09] States, we have a president, by the way,
[00:56:12] I think probably the most effective
[00:56:14] president in foreign affairs that we may
[00:56:17] have had since Nixon. Um, I think he's
[00:56:21] incredibly consequential in foreign
[00:56:23] affairs. Uh, on domestic policy, on
[00:56:27] legal issues, I think the rule of law is
[00:56:29] in trouble, but I won't go into that.
[00:56:32] >> I've noticed. No, I agree. But uh
[00:56:34] foreign policy wise, he's he's moved
[00:56:38] incredible mountains. And I'm not I'm
[00:56:40] not just talking about the the recent
[00:56:42] activities with the hostages. I'm
[00:56:43] talking about as as a lawyer engaged in
[00:56:46] Africa. The man has done more to um open
[00:56:51] up uh our eyes to the opportunities in
[00:56:55] parts of Africa. He's made it much less
[00:56:58] risky to go into Africa as as an
[00:57:02] American in Africa over the last
[00:57:04] decades. You don't know how frustrating
[00:57:06] it is when the Department of Justice
[00:57:08] opens up investigations the minute uh
[00:57:11] American companies want to venture into
[00:57:14] into Africa or into Latin America. And
[00:57:16] now that's not happening. And now com
[00:57:19] American companies are going into some
[00:57:21] of the wild west countries in Africa and
[00:57:24] Latin America. and I say more power to
[00:57:27] them. Why why would we just hand this to
[00:57:30] China? So, uh, Congo most obviously, but
[00:57:34] others.
[00:57:35] >> Yes. Speaking of African countries, um,
[00:57:39] all of a sudden, I'm not defending
[00:57:41] Nigeria. I don't have strong views in
[00:57:43] Nigeria, but Nigeria's become famous in
[00:57:45] the last week as a country in which
[00:57:47] there's Christian pers persecution going
[00:57:49] on. I I think that's been there's been a
[00:57:51] lot of conflict between Muslims and
[00:57:53] Christians in Nigeria for you know my
[00:57:55] whole life
[00:57:57] but all of a sudden it's a kind of
[00:57:59] centerpiece of the conversation. How did
[00:58:01] what what is the truth? You've been in
[00:58:02] and out of Nigeria for how long?
[00:58:05] >> 50 years.
[00:58:06] >> 50 years. 1975. Is that correct?
[00:58:08] >> Yes.
[00:58:09] >> It's a long time. So you know Nigeria
[00:58:11] pretty well.
[00:58:12] >> I do.
[00:58:13] >> What is the truth about what's going on?
[00:58:15] And I ask cuz you've got credibility.
[00:58:17] know the country and you're spending the
[00:58:19] rest of your life defending Christians
[00:58:20] around the world. Tell me what the
[00:58:21] actual truth of Christian persecution in
[00:58:23] Nigeria is.
[00:58:24] >> Well, let's be very clear that um the
[00:58:27] Nigerian government is populated by
[00:58:30] Christians and Muslims.
[00:58:32] >> Mhm. Um I have represented uh in his
[00:58:36] earlier life the national security
[00:58:38] adviser of Nigeria when he was a young
[00:58:40] man and uh he's he's a lovely individual
[00:58:45] um and and caring and and and uh
[00:58:49] universally uh respected in terms of
[00:58:52] religious issues. devout Muslim but
[00:58:55] universally respected. Um, in my adopted
[00:58:59] family in Lagos,
[00:59:01] >> the Odisana family sort of adopted me
[00:59:04] when I was a very very young man and and
[00:59:07] living there. Um, I sort of have a half
[00:59:10] brother there, Dapo Odisagna.
[00:59:13] That family is a totally integrated
[00:59:14] family, Muslim, Christian. Um, I was
[00:59:19] always teased that I was a Juroruba,
[00:59:21] which was a a Jewish Yoruba. But I mean,
[00:59:25] um, there have always been tribal
[00:59:27] conflict. I spoke to the foreign
[00:59:29] minister before I came here because I
[00:59:31] wanted to get clarity on the
[00:59:33] government's position.
[00:59:36] Absolutely. Let's be clear, President
[00:59:38] Tonubo's wife is a Christian pastor.
[00:59:41] This is not targeted at Christians.
[00:59:44] There are probably an equal or more
[00:59:46] number of Muslim deaths. I am grateful
[00:59:50] to President Trump for identifying this
[00:59:54] these attacks on Christians. Believe it
[00:59:57] or not, you can blame some of this on
[00:59:59] the French who had
[01:00:01] >> I do I know nothing about it, but I
[01:00:03] believe you anyway. [laughter]
[01:00:05] >> They had a massive force in the Sahel.
[01:00:08] They armed the Tors which are a
[01:00:10] notorious notoriously uh aggressive uh
[01:00:15] tribal group that has that arming has
[01:00:19] led to mass killings of Christians. The
[01:00:22] um fact that when Libya blew apart a
[01:00:27] massive amount of arms went down to Boo
[01:00:29] Haram
[01:00:31] uh can't be denied by anyone. Nigeria
[01:00:34] wants to consult with the United States.
[01:00:38] Nigeria wants assistance in protecting
[01:00:41] Christians and Muslims, protecting their
[01:00:44] populations. Nigeria feels it has not
[01:00:48] had a fair shake from Washington. And
[01:00:51] I'm not, you know, I don't work for
[01:00:52] Nigeria. I'm not going to go on and on.
[01:00:54] The foreign minister is a a close friend
[01:00:56] who I respect deeply. But I can tell you
[01:01:00] from my work, I was privileged to
[01:01:01] represent one of the Nigerian states
[01:01:04] years ago at Quibbal. We we won a case
[01:01:06] actually for them. Um
[01:01:10] the the Nigerians would welcome American
[01:01:13] assistance with open arms. So this is
[01:01:16] this is unlike Ukraine which is
[01:01:18] destroying its church or Armenia which
[01:01:20] is destroying its church. Here you have
[01:01:22] a government that wants to protect its
[01:01:25] populace, doesn't have the resources.
[01:01:29] Nobody's going to deny Nigeria's been
[01:01:31] racked by corruption all the years I've
[01:01:33] known it. But they want a new deal, a
[01:01:36] new relationship with Washington and in
[01:01:39] part to assist them in protecting
[01:01:41] Christians. So, when I read some of what
[01:01:44] I've been reading, um, you know, I'm I'm
[01:01:47] never going to say uh that Ted Cruz
[01:01:50] isn't a brilliant man,
[01:01:53] but I'm going to say I I might have a
[01:01:55] little more time in Nigeria than he
[01:01:56] does. And I would would welcome him to
[01:01:59] speak to the foreign minister or others
[01:02:02] because one thing America doesn't need
[01:02:04] are more enemies. Africa is the future.
[01:02:08] I have said it time and time again. I'm
[01:02:12] privileged to be councel to the
[01:02:14] Democratic Republic of the Congo.
[01:02:17] We, you know, my firm has spent many
[01:02:20] years, we've just, we're still trying to
[01:02:22] defend the opposition leader of Tanzania
[01:02:25] who Tundu Lisu who's been illegally
[01:02:27] jailed. Uh, a thousand are dead
[01:02:30] protesting completely bogus, fraudulent
[01:02:33] elections. And to the credit of the
[01:02:35] United States, at least in the Senate,
[01:02:37] they've spoken out. Foreign Relations
[01:02:40] Committee has spoken out. We need our
[01:02:41] administration and we certainly need the
[01:02:43] EU to stop funding this grotesque
[01:02:46] government in Tanzania.
[01:02:48] But we we have to stop looking at Africa
[01:02:52] as a security concern alone. And we have
[01:02:55] to recognize that between their minerals
[01:02:58] and between the entrepreneurial spirit,
[01:03:01] Nigerian lawyers are as good or better
[01:03:03] than American lawyers or British
[01:03:05] lawyers. I mean, there is an incredible
[01:03:08] infrastructure of intelligence in
[01:03:10] Nigeria that we don't know anything
[01:03:13] about. All we try to do is sanction and
[01:03:17] condemn. It is a horrible, horrible part
[01:03:20] of our policy that we sanction the hell
[01:03:23] out of everybody. We We are responsible
[01:03:27] for the consolidation of power in Moscow
[01:03:31] under Putin.
[01:03:33] >> If we were not sanctioning the hell out
[01:03:35] of all these people who had moved to
[01:03:37] Europe,
[01:03:38] >> who knows whether Putin would still be
[01:03:40] in power.
[01:03:41] >> Exactly. No, it's that's the truth. I
[01:03:42] know it's it's so counterproductive that
[01:03:45] it's got to be part of some sort of
[01:03:46] larger strategy that I'm too dumb to
[01:03:48] understand because it's it's achieving
[01:03:50] the opposite of the intended result.
[01:03:53] >> And and and let me tell you, um I'm I'm
[01:03:56] working in Iran in Iraq against Iranian
[01:04:00] interests. We have uh a woman Sarah
[01:04:03] Salem who is an American citizen
[01:04:06] bravely, incredibly bravely defending
[01:04:09] her interests and and those of the
[01:04:12] Kurdish in the north. And you know the
[01:04:14] Kurds are going to have an election
[01:04:15] soon. She's defending their interests
[01:04:18] against a wildly corrupt chief justice
[01:04:22] named Zidon who is actually an
[01:04:25] instrument of Iran.
[01:04:28] and there have been a complete reversal
[01:04:30] of her fortunes before the courts
[01:04:32] because of corruption uh against a group
[01:04:35] called the Hannah brothers. And when
[01:04:38] we've gone to the US embassy for help,
[01:04:41] this is an American citizen who by the
[01:04:43] way was kidnapped and tortured 10 years
[01:04:46] ago and has been fighting for her
[01:04:49] redemption and for compensation against
[01:04:51] Almaliki and Zidon and others. Our
[01:04:55] embassy pledges neutrality does not help
[01:04:58] this brave American citizen.
[01:05:00] >> How can that not help an American? I
[01:05:02] >> listen, we cannot understand it,
[01:05:06] especially in a moment where the future
[01:05:08] of Iraq, which is massively important to
[01:05:11] the United States, is at risk. I mean,
[01:05:14] there's an election coming up in Iraq as
[01:05:16] well, and the oil wealth of that country
[01:05:18] is is almost unimaginable.
[01:05:21] And the issue is whether the Iraqi
[01:05:23] militia will disarm, whether in fact the
[01:05:26] government uh that we we not only have
[01:05:29] spent billions to support, but we lost
[01:05:32] almost 5,000 lives, whether that
[01:05:34] government uh will be a government uh
[01:05:36] somewhat free of the corruption
[01:05:40] and control of Iran. Yeah.
[01:05:42] >> And and and our government's been
[01:05:44] impotent. There's there's a few people
[01:05:47] in Congress who have spoken out and
[01:05:49] blessed them for doing that, but very
[01:05:52] few people have paid Iraq any thought at
[01:05:55] all. And yet
[01:05:57] we overconentrate
[01:05:59] on Ukraine to the exclusion of almost
[01:06:04] everything else. So Ted Cruz is upset
[01:06:07] about what's happening in Nigeria to
[01:06:09] Christians. I'm not against him being
[01:06:11] upset about that. You say it's much more
[01:06:13] complicated than he's presenting,
[01:06:16] >> probably more tribal than religious.
[01:06:18] >> I, you know, I don't know much about it.
[01:06:22] >> But how much has Ted Cruz said about the
[01:06:24] the US funded destruction of the
[01:06:27] Ukrainian Orthodox Church?
[01:06:29] >> Nothing. Nothing at all.
[01:06:31] >> Nothing.
[01:06:31] >> Nothing. I mean, how can that be?
[01:06:33] >> Listen, Tucker.
[01:06:37] Nobody. I mean, I The Washington Post
[01:06:39] did a hit piece on me. a woman I knew
[01:06:42] quite well did a terrible hit piece.
[01:06:44] Tried to present me as a Russian agent.
[01:06:47] That was their focus. There was no issue
[01:06:51] about what's happening to the church.
[01:06:54] None at all. And and the funny thing, by
[01:06:56] the way, is we are not trying to change
[01:06:59] American policy. where you and I
[01:07:01] disagree is I've always been totally
[01:07:03] supportive of Ukraine from a military
[01:07:05] standpoint because my clients are in the
[01:07:08] front line,
[01:07:09] >> right?
[01:07:09] >> Members of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church
[01:07:11] are fighting and dying for Ukraine,
[01:07:14] >> right?
[01:07:15] >> And you know, I don't know if you
[01:07:16] remember last time I met you, I showed
[01:07:18] you a video that we had done of some
[01:07:20] young men in the army speaking out for
[01:07:23] the church. Well, one of those young men
[01:07:26] has just died uh fighting Russia. And
[01:07:31] his his comment in that video was to the
[01:07:34] president, how do you how do you want me
[01:07:37] to fight when my own church I can't
[01:07:41] defend my own church in my town?
[01:07:44] >> Sad. and and Armeni. Here is a bishop.
[01:07:48] One of my lawyers went to the jail in
[01:07:51] the war zone to meet Bishop Areni. He
[01:07:57] has been in jail 17 months. He has no
[01:08:01] stomach. He is horribly ill. Horribly
[01:08:05] ill. He is a monk. He is a bishop. He
[01:08:09] has spent his years devoted to uh a
[01:08:14] cathedral.
[01:08:17] What happens is we think after 17 months
[01:08:22] they're going to release this poor man
[01:08:25] in his 60s, possibly to die.
[01:08:29] They get him out for a moment and the
[01:08:32] secret police arrest him again
[01:08:36] on the trumped up charge that he
[01:08:39] resisted the Russian invasion. He didn't
[01:08:42] resist the Russian invasion. Some
[01:08:44] completely bogus charge and he is
[01:08:46] incarcerated again. It's a level of
[01:08:49] cruelty and torture I cannot express to
[01:08:54] you.
[01:08:54] >> And Cruz has said nothing about it. No,
[01:08:56] really no one said anything about but
[01:08:57] Cruz specifically and but he's all of a
[01:09:00] sudden kind of out of nowhere deeply
[01:09:02] concerned about the plight of Christians
[01:09:04] in Nigeria which I want to restate. I
[01:09:07] maybe a totally valid concern. I don't
[01:09:08] know.
[01:09:10] But that's weird. What is that? All of a
[01:09:13] sudden everybody's concerned about
[01:09:14] people who clearly have no track record
[01:09:16] of being interested in Christians at
[01:09:18] all, including Ted Cruz. What What is
[01:09:21] going on? Where where is this coming
[01:09:22] from? Well, in fact, what's interesting
[01:09:24] is they're calling it a genocide. And a
[01:09:27] genocide under international legal terms
[01:09:30] requires a an intent and certainly it's
[01:09:34] a very strange scenario where you have a
[01:09:36] government richly populated by
[01:09:39] Christians uh and accusing them of some
[01:09:42] form of genocide.
[01:09:42] >> The president whose wife is a Christian
[01:09:44] pastor.
[01:09:45] But I I mean one thing I do understand
[01:09:48] is coordinated propaganda and this is
[01:09:50] coordinated propaganda.
[01:09:52] What I mean is it look you know I I can
[01:09:56] tell you that the Nigerians have no idea
[01:10:01] where this is coming from. They've
[01:10:03] wanted Washington's attention since the
[01:10:06] beginning of the Trump administration.
[01:10:09] There are 230
[01:10:12] million Nigerians who long for a strong
[01:10:16] relationship with the United States, who
[01:10:19] are being cultivated by Russia,
[01:10:20] cultivated by China, cultivated by
[01:10:23] India, but want to work with America,
[01:10:27] and we ignore them until we condemn them
[01:10:30] for a genocide that is absolutely not a
[01:10:33] genocide. Yes, I support President
[01:10:36] Trump's interest in helping out
[01:10:40] Christians everywhere, but let's let's
[01:10:43] be fair to a government who is working
[01:10:45] to try to protect Christians and doesn't
[01:10:47] have the resources.
[01:10:48] >> But, right, this is clearly I'll just
[01:10:50] say it out loud. It's an effort to draw
[01:10:53] the attention of faithful Christians in
[01:10:55] the United States away from
[01:10:57] long-standing persecution that we have
[01:10:59] studiously ignored in Ukraine and and
[01:11:03] other parts of the world. That is I mean
[01:11:04] it's obvious to me what's going on. Does
[01:11:06] that sound crazy?
[01:11:08] >> No. No. Because I I don't have another
[01:11:11] another way to explain it. And and one
[01:11:13] other thing I want to mention on your
[01:11:15] show is that that we have this new white
[01:11:18] paper on Armenia called the Pesinian and
[01:11:22] the persecution of Samuel Carropetchian
[01:11:25] and it's it's available online and it's
[01:11:29] at free.com
[01:11:34] and please download it and you will see
[01:11:37] a you know it's 60 or so pages but it
[01:11:40] provides the entire history of the
[01:11:42] persecution. But you know, as as you
[01:11:45] discovered the Armenian genocide from
[01:11:48] there till now, Armenia has been a brave
[01:11:52] Christian country in a terrible,
[01:11:55] terrible neighborhood. And you know I
[01:11:59] having been in their court, having been
[01:12:01] in the jail, having met with
[01:12:04] Carropetchan,
[01:12:06] I am at a complete loss about the fact
[01:12:10] that I know they think that uh uh
[01:12:14] they're going to have this uh prayer
[01:12:17] breakfast. I I believe one of the Trump
[01:12:19] children is going to Armenia. I'm sure
[01:12:23] Donald Trump Jr. again has no idea of
[01:12:25] what's actually going on there. Um it's
[01:12:29] it's a terrible situation where because
[01:12:32] you can't get into the media to tell
[01:12:35] them the truth. So many senior people in
[01:12:37] the United States operate on ignorance
[01:12:40] and and reputation launder people like
[01:12:44] >> Pashinian. Well, I I've been an
[01:12:46] unwitting participant in that phenomenon
[01:12:48] myself. So I know like you don't really
[01:12:50] know what's going on. You get used. Um,
[01:12:53] I've been used. I would deeply regret
[01:12:55] it. I'm not going to happen to me again
[01:12:57] if I can help it. But I'm sympathetic in
[01:12:59] general to that cuz again, I've
[01:13:02] experienced it. But the Ukraine thing is
[01:13:06] anyone who wants to know about what's
[01:13:08] happening to the church in Ukraine can
[01:13:09] find out. Like that's not a secret. Now,
[01:13:12] >> are there prayer breakfast for in for
[01:13:15] Ukraine?
[01:13:16] >> Yes.
[01:13:16] >> Actually, yes. Does anyone ever bring
[01:13:18] this up?
[01:13:19] >> Uh, they're not. Our church is not
[01:13:21] invited.
[01:13:22] to the prayer breakfast.
[01:13:23] >> Yes, we're not invited.
[01:13:25] >> The biggest church in Ukraine is not
[01:13:27] invited to the prayer breakfast for
[01:13:28] Ukraine.
[01:13:28] >> In Ukraine? No. No, they're not invited.
[01:13:32] As you're aware, when I fought to get
[01:13:35] into the religious freedom conference
[01:13:38] last time, we had to fight to get a
[01:13:42] table to put information on. Then when I
[01:13:46] wanted to speak, they loaded a panel
[01:13:49] with five or six other people and I got
[01:13:53] about 2 minutes um to speak while the
[01:13:58] man who is in charge of the destruction
[01:14:01] of the church was a keynote before a
[01:14:03] large audience.
[01:14:04] >> Who organized this?
[01:14:06] >> Uh this is the International Religious
[01:14:09] Freedom Caucus, I think.
[01:14:11] >> And and uh I got a call from Sam
[01:14:15] Brownback to say, "If you do speak,
[01:14:18] could you be civil?" And I said, "Well,
[01:14:21] you don't know me, Mr. Brownback, but I
[01:14:23] don't have any record of incivility.
[01:14:26] You know, that's not in my nature. Uh, I
[01:14:29] just want an opportunity to speak out
[01:14:32] for the people of this church."
[01:14:34] >> Sam Brambeck, a former senator from
[01:14:37] Kansas.
[01:14:37] >> Yes.
[01:14:38] >> Um, he was running this.
[01:14:40] >> I think [clears throat] he was involved.
[01:14:41] I I have no idea.
[01:14:43] >> But I mean, did he speak out against the
[01:14:46] destruction of the largest church in
[01:14:47] Ukraine at a religious freedom event?
[01:14:50] >> Nobody did. And and let me go further.
[01:14:52] >> That is so bonkers to me. Like, I can
[01:14:53] hardly even believe what you're saying.
[01:14:55] >> Well, wait a second. What's worse is
[01:14:57] they brought army folks. They the people
[01:15:02] were in Ukrainian army uniforms walking
[01:15:05] with OCU priests. state church priests
[01:15:08] through the halls of this religious
[01:15:10] freedom breakfast or I'm sorry,
[01:15:12] religious freedom convention or
[01:15:14] conference. Um, and they had a happy
[01:15:17] hour,
[01:15:19] a happy hour sponsored by Ukraine.
[01:15:23] That is like absolutely crazy. Are they
[01:15:26] going to do this for do this for China
[01:15:28] too? [laughter]
[01:15:30] >> A we a weager happy hour.
[01:15:31] >> Yeah, exactly. Celebrating religious
[01:15:33] freedom in China. It's all okay. So, la
[01:15:35] last question, which I do think kind of
[01:15:36] sums it up. Um, you've been in and out
[01:15:38] of Ukraine a lot. You've got, of course,
[01:15:40] a huge Ukrainian client. Can you go to
[01:15:42] Ukraine?
[01:15:43] >> No.
[01:15:44] >> Why?
[01:15:45] >> I'm under criminal investigation in
[01:15:46] Ukraine.
[01:15:48] >> For what?
[01:15:50] >> I don't know. I just know it. They've
[01:15:52] announced that I'm under investigation.
[01:15:56] Um, but again, it's no idea. It's like
[01:15:59] with Carropetian, you know, they they
[01:16:01] try to find something to get you on. Um,
[01:16:06] and they invent stuff, as you know. So,
[01:16:09] it's it's really I'm I'm very tempted to
[01:16:12] go and I may go again, but I have no
[01:16:15] idea if I go if I'll get out. And it to
[01:16:18] some extent it's a bit like that with
[01:16:19] with Armenia because in Armenia they've
[01:16:22] just arrested not only bishops but now
[01:16:24] they've arrested three mayors uh who
[01:16:28] spoke out and who weren't helpful as
[01:16:30] well as the family of the patriarch the
[01:16:33] Catholicos the uh brother and uh some
[01:16:37] other relative um on on again completely
[01:16:41] trumped up charges. It feels like we're
[01:16:43] moving very quickly to just kind of
[01:16:47] global repression. It seems like liberal
[01:16:49] democracy has been so discredited, no
[01:16:52] one's defending it and it's dying before
[01:16:54] our eyes. That that's kind of the
[01:16:56] overview from everything you've said.
[01:16:58] >> Look, um, the EU has lost its way.
[01:17:02] There's no question. I think the EU is a
[01:17:06] tremendous
[01:17:07] danger if it doesn't get its act
[01:17:10] together on fundamental values.
[01:17:13] You know, there's this dialectic going
[01:17:15] on.
[01:17:16] Everybody is afraid of Russia,
[01:17:19] completely afraid, paralyzed. I mean, a
[01:17:21] Russian drone crosses the border and
[01:17:23] we're at Defcon 1.
[01:17:26] Yet
[01:17:28] after I don't know four plus years,
[01:17:33] Kiev isn't taken. None. You know, I
[01:17:37] think there's been a 1% change in
[01:17:40] territory. So, how can Europe be so
[01:17:44] completely
[01:17:46] in fear of Russia and yet at the same
[01:17:50] time instrumentalize that fear to
[01:17:54] destroy their economies, to maintain
[01:17:56] sanctions, to engage in in wildly
[01:17:59] self-destructive behavior and fail to
[01:18:04] maintain democratic values. You saw them
[01:18:09] throw out uh a candidate in Romania. You
[01:18:13] saw what they're trying to do in in
[01:18:15] Germany. You see what's happened in
[01:18:17] France. It is a continuous obliteration
[01:18:23] of rule of law. And and we have got to
[01:18:26] start getting back to first principles
[01:18:29] with respect to rule of law everywhere
[01:18:32] or we will lose it completely
[01:18:35] everywhere.
[01:18:37] Bob, Amsterdam, I I swear I check the
[01:18:39] news regularly waiting for an account of
[01:18:41] your arrest. I hope it never comes, but
[01:18:43] you are taking actual physical risks um
[01:18:46] on behalf of people who don't have
[01:18:47] power. So, I'm grateful to you for that.
[01:18:49] >> Well, thank you for having me.
[01:18:51] >> Stay free.
[01:18:52] >> Thank you.
[01:19:00] >> We've got a new website we hope you will
[01:19:02] visit. It's called [music]
[01:19:03] newcommissionnow.com
[01:19:06] and it refers to a new 9/11 commission.
[01:19:09] So, we spent months putting together our
[01:19:11] 9/11 documentary series and if there's
[01:19:14] one thing we learned, it's that in fact
[01:19:17] there was fornowledge of [music] the
[01:19:19] attacks. People knew.
[01:19:22] >> The American public deserves to know.
[01:19:24] >> We're shocked actually to [music] learn
[01:19:25] that, to have that confirmed, but it's
[01:19:26] true. The evidence is overwhelming. The
[01:19:28] CIA, for example, knew the hijackers
[01:19:30] were here in the United States. [music]
[01:19:31] They knew they were planning an act of
[01:19:33] terror.
[01:19:33] >> In his passport is a visa to go to
[01:19:36] United [music] States of America.
[01:19:38] >> A foreign national was caught
[01:19:39] celebrating as the World Trade Center
[01:19:41] fell and later [music] said he was in
[01:19:43] New York quote to document the event.
[01:19:46] How do you know there would be an event
[01:19:47] to document in the first place? Because
[01:19:48] he had fornowledge. And maybe most
[01:19:51] amazingly, somebody, an unknown
[01:19:53] investor, shorted American Airlines
[01:19:55] [music] and United Airlines, the
[01:19:56] companies whose planes the attackers
[01:19:58] used on 9/11, as well as the banks that
[01:20:01] were inside the Twin [music] Towers just
[01:20:02] before the attacks. They made money on
[01:20:05] the 9/11 attacks, because they knew they
[01:20:07] were coming. Who did that?
[01:20:09] >> You have to look at the evidence. The US
[01:20:12] government [music] learned the name of
[01:20:14] that investor but never released it.
[01:20:18] Maybe there's an instant explanation
[01:20:19] [music] for all this, but there isn't
[01:20:21] actually. And by the way, it doesn't
[01:20:22] matter whether there is or not. The
[01:20:24] public deserve to know what the hell
[01:20:27] that [music] was. How did people know
[01:20:29] ahead of time? Why was no one ever
[01:20:30] punished for it? 9/11 Commission, the
[01:20:33] original one, [music] was a fraud. It
[01:20:35] was fake. Its conclusions were written
[01:20:38] before the investigation. That's true.
[01:20:40] And it's outrageous. [music]
[01:20:42] This country needs a new 9/11
[01:20:44] commission. One that actually tells the
[01:20:46] truth [music] that tries to get to the
[01:20:47] bottom of the story. We can't just move
[01:20:50] on like nothing happened.
[01:20:51] >> 911 commission is a cover.
[01:20:54] >> Something did happen. [music]
[01:20:56] We need to force a new investigation
[01:20:58] into 9/11 almost 25 years later. [music]
[01:21:02] Sorry, justice demands it. And if you
[01:21:04] want that, go to newcommissionnow.com
[01:21:08] to add your name to our petition. We're
[01:21:10] not getting paid for this. We're doing
[01:21:11] this [music] because we really mean it.
[01:21:12] Newcommissionow.com
ℹ️ Document Details
SHA-256
yt_rsSmQEJyO-g
Dataset
youtube
Comments 0