📄 Extracted Text (19,472 words)
[00:00:00] Christian Brewiser, thank you. I'm so
[00:00:02] glad to meet you. I have watched you on
[00:00:04] and off through the years and even when
[00:00:06] I, you know, I bought every part of the
[00:00:09] official story like the little
[00:00:11] Washington robot that I was unknowingly.
[00:00:14] Um, even then I I admired your
[00:00:16] doggedness and your intelligence,
[00:00:19] rigorous mode of thinking, uh, and your
[00:00:22] bravery for not letting it go. So, you
[00:00:23] you haven't let it go. You've been on
[00:00:24] this for almost 25 years. Are you more
[00:00:27] or less satisfied that you understand
[00:00:29] what actually happened on 911?
[00:00:31] >> No. I mean, I think 25 years out,
[00:00:34] there's absolutely no complete
[00:00:35] understanding of what really happened. I
[00:00:38] think um that's unconscionable. We live
[00:00:40] in the United States of America, and to
[00:00:42] think that 3,000 people were massacred
[00:00:45] in broad daylight um in lower Manhattan
[00:00:48] um and that there's not been a full
[00:00:50] accounting that is credible. Um there's
[00:00:53] not been the ability for the widows and
[00:00:56] kids to avail themselves of the judicial
[00:00:59] system, of the legal system. Um I just
[00:01:02] think it's a stain on the country. Um
[00:01:05] I'm someone that believes that we are a
[00:01:07] nation based upon the rule of law.
[00:01:09] >> Yeah. And the reality is this nation's
[00:01:11] worst terrorist attack um the families
[00:01:14] left behind um have never been given the
[00:01:17] opportunity um to use the rule of law to
[00:01:23] give us a sense of accountability and
[00:01:25] justice for the murder of our of our
[00:01:26] love of our loved ones
[00:01:28] >> or even a coherent
[00:01:31] >> [music]
[00:01:36] [music]
[00:01:42] [music]
[00:01:50] >> I mean, that's what I'm really struck by
[00:01:52] is that 25 years on, it's less obvious
[00:01:55] what that was. That is weird. Why?
[00:02:00] >> I mean, I think initially in the
[00:02:01] beginning, everyone was really scared.
[00:02:03] Yes.
[00:02:03] >> I think that um first there was fear.
[00:02:06] >> Um and I think that that was jinned up
[00:02:08] sort of by the Bush administration and
[00:02:11] then once the
[00:02:12] >> question about that.
[00:02:14] >> Yes, I can speak to that firsthand. Um
[00:02:16] and I too was really scared. I mean, I
[00:02:18] think we not only had the attacks, my
[00:02:20] husband was killed, I was left alone. Um
[00:02:23] we lived in New Jersey, right across the
[00:02:25] water from where the attacks took place.
[00:02:27] we could smell the air um which was
[00:02:30] horrible. Um and then we had the anthrax
[00:02:32] attacks and um that happened in near
[00:02:35] where you know in New Jersey and near
[00:02:37] Princeton. Um and so it was a really
[00:02:39] scary time. Um and then subsequent to
[00:02:42] that when things started to maybe
[00:02:44] subside where people sort of regained
[00:02:46] their um sense of reality um we had the
[00:02:50] queue up to the war in Iraq and anyone
[00:02:53] who questioned anything about the
[00:02:55] attacks and how they could have happened
[00:02:57] and who could be behind them you were
[00:03:00] silenced because we were a nation at war
[00:03:03] and it was unpatriotic um to raise any
[00:03:05] questions to to question anything and to
[00:03:08] demand answers certainly not allowed.
[00:03:10] Um, and so that sort of took I think
[00:03:13] quite a bit of years. Um, and now,
[00:03:16] believe it or not, I think for many of
[00:03:17] us, it's 25 years moving into the 25th
[00:03:20] year. And I do not think that we've been
[00:03:22] told the truth. I think as hard as we
[00:03:25] fought for a commission to try to learn
[00:03:27] the lessons, to try to understand better
[00:03:30] why and how the attacks happened, um, I
[00:03:33] think that commission was a whitewash. I
[00:03:35] think, um, it told a story, not the
[00:03:39] truth. And there's a difference between
[00:03:41] a story and the truth. And I think we're
[00:03:44] owed the truth as to what happened that
[00:03:46] day and why the country was attacked and
[00:03:48] why we did nothing in a defensive
[00:03:49] posture to even mitigate the damage on
[00:03:53] the day of 9/11. It's bad enough when
[00:03:55] you look at the facts leading up to the
[00:03:57] day of 9/11 and you see the many
[00:03:59] instances of where things were sort of
[00:04:02] um overlooked, facilitated in some
[00:04:05] situations. Um but the day of 9/11 as
[00:04:09] well there were failures systemic
[00:04:11] failures that um cost lives and so for
[00:04:15] me initially in the beginning I was like
[00:04:17] you know what like we need to do better
[00:04:19] the country needs to learn lessons um so
[00:04:22] that more lives could be saved if and
[00:04:24] when another terrorist attack happened.
[00:04:26] And for whatever reason uh President
[00:04:28] Bush wasn't interested in doing that but
[00:04:31] he was interested in the war in Iraq.
[00:04:33] Um, and to me, 25 years looking back, 24
[00:04:36] years looking back, I do wonder if the
[00:04:39] attacks um were to serve as the premise
[00:04:43] to allow for preemptive war. I think
[00:04:45] that when you do examine what had
[00:04:48] happened in the government since then,
[00:04:50] um, it certainly laid the groundwork for
[00:04:52] preemptive war. I'm not a person who
[00:04:55] supports war. I think that um as someone
[00:04:57] who lost a loved one, I know the
[00:04:59] devastation war brings to a home and a
[00:05:02] family and it makes me sick to think
[00:05:05] that no one was really held accountable
[00:05:07] for the war in Iraq, for the hundreds of
[00:05:09] thousands of lives, for the tens of
[00:05:11] thousands of US soldiers. Um, and it's
[00:05:16] I'm just confounded with the fact that
[00:05:18] the American public never demanded that
[00:05:21] and that for all intents and purposes
[00:05:23] they got away with 9/11 and they got
[00:05:25] away with the war in Iraq.
[00:05:27] >> I agree with every word uh that you just
[00:05:28] said and thank thank you for saying them
[00:05:30] because they're true. The one
[00:05:33] part [clears throat] where I would ask
[00:05:34] you to clarify clearly 9/11 was used as
[00:05:37] a pretext as an excuse for the war in
[00:05:39] Iraq was used to justify it on you know
[00:05:42] famously false grounds
[00:05:44] but that's a very different thing from
[00:05:46] 9/11 was staged or allowed to happen in
[00:05:50] order to justify the war in Iraq. Do you
[00:05:52] think that's possible? I mean, I think
[00:05:55] um there are certainly uh theories out
[00:05:58] there, but I think when you look at the
[00:06:00] facts, it's it would be certainly more
[00:06:03] comforting for uh the government to come
[00:06:06] forward and prove that that's not the
[00:06:09] case, right? Like it's uncomfortable as
[00:06:12] an American citizen to think that
[00:06:14] members of our intelligence apparatus,
[00:06:16] our intelligence community stood down,
[00:06:19] greased the wheels, facilitated
[00:06:21] different um fact scenarios that enabled
[00:06:25] the attacks that may or may not have
[00:06:27] already been underway. Um, and so
[00:06:29] there's a story out there that that
[00:06:32] happened that, you know, the CIA might
[00:06:35] have allowed certain um, things to
[00:06:38] happen and to move forward because they
[00:06:41] were letting the line out to try to
[00:06:43] learn more about al Qaeda or terrorist
[00:06:45] groups um, to learn more to get the big
[00:06:48] fish, quote unquote, right?
[00:06:49] >> Um,
[00:06:51] you know, I think that that's an
[00:06:53] interesting nice way to look at things,
[00:06:56] certainly a less diabolical way. Um but
[00:06:59] there's a rule supposedly in the intel
[00:07:01] community that when you have um
[00:07:03] actionable intelligence, you're supposed
[00:07:05] to roll up the operation. And so one of
[00:07:08] the biggest questions that I have uh
[00:07:10] centers on the Yemen switchboard, the
[00:07:12] Alhada House switchboard. Um the CIA
[00:07:16] apparently learned about that in I think
[00:07:18] 96. Um they officially learned about it
[00:07:21] in '98 through the embassy bombing. And
[00:07:24] of course, my question would be if the
[00:07:25] CIA is monitoring the Alhada
[00:07:28] switchboard, all of the communications
[00:07:30] that Bin Laden is sending out to his
[00:07:32] operatives around the world to carry out
[00:07:33] attacks. Um, when the 98 embassy bombing
[00:07:38] happened, why didn't they go in and shut
[00:07:40] down the Alhada switchboard? They
[00:07:42] didn't. They, I guess, wanted to leave
[00:07:44] the line out and continue to learn more
[00:07:46] information, and they didn't want to tip
[00:07:47] off al Qaeda or bin Laden that they had
[00:07:49] ears on him and his operations. Okay, so
[00:07:52] the embassy bombing happens. Kind of not
[00:07:54] great. Um but then the US's coal happens
[00:07:58] in um 2000. 17 sailors were killed.
[00:08:01] Again, that information flew through the
[00:08:03] Alhada switchboard and the CIA still at
[00:08:06] that point doesn't go in and shut it
[00:08:08] down and stop it. I believe that if the
[00:08:10] Alhada switchboard was shut down, it
[00:08:13] would have at the very least delayed the
[00:08:15] 9/11 attacks and perhaps my husband
[00:08:18] would be alive today. Well, Grand Canyon
[00:08:20] University is not like most American
[00:08:22] colleges. It focuses on the things that
[00:08:23] actually matter. It is not a ripoff. It
[00:08:28] is the real thing. It's private,
[00:08:29] affordable, Christian university located
[00:08:32] in the heart of Phoenix, one of the
[00:08:34] largest universities in the country.
[00:08:35] Actually, at Grand Canyon University,
[00:08:37] education is more than academics. It is
[00:08:39] about opportunity. The chance for every
[00:08:41] student to live out the right [music] to
[00:08:43] life, liberty, and the pursuit of
[00:08:44] happiness. Rights are not given by the
[00:08:46] government. They were bestowed at birth
[00:08:48] at conception by God.
[00:08:51] That's just a fact. And Grand Canyon
[00:08:53] University is not going to lie to your
[00:08:54] kids and claim otherwise. It tells the
[00:08:56] truth. So, I know you're thinking, "A
[00:08:59] quality education is rare, so this
[00:09:01] probably costs a fortune. Colleges
[00:09:03] constantly [music] jack up their costs.
[00:09:05] They probably do the same." Well, they
[00:09:06] don't. Actually,
[00:09:08] GCU has maintained the same tuition for
[00:09:11] 17 straight years. They're not in
[00:09:14] education to get rich at the expense of
[00:09:16] students. The whole thing is actually
[00:09:17] about learning. How refreshing. With
[00:09:20] flexible online classes, hybrid learning
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[00:09:34] pursuit to serve is yours. Let it
[00:09:37] flourish. Find your purpose at Grand
[00:09:38] Canyon University. Private, Christian,
[00:09:42] affordable. gcu.edu.
[00:09:45] So the question is why wasn't it? And I
[00:09:47] think the explanation that people
[00:09:49] sympathetic to the CIA would give is
[00:09:51] that it was just it's just too great
[00:09:55] having a window into their private
[00:09:57] communications and like why would you
[00:09:58] shut that down? Well, because first of
[00:10:01] all, the embassy bombing happened and I
[00:10:03] know it was only um you know like 13
[00:10:06] Americans or something like that and
[00:10:07] mostly um it happened in East Africa so
[00:10:10] most of the casualties were African. Um
[00:10:12] and maybe they thought like yeah you're
[00:10:14] right the costbenefit analysis like
[00:10:15] we'll just you know we lost 13 military
[00:10:18] whatever but then the the coal happens
[00:10:20] that's 17 sailors
[00:10:22] um each one of those lives means
[00:10:24] everything in the world to their family.
[00:10:26] >> That's right. And um and then 9/11
[00:10:28] happens, 3,000 people are killed. Um at
[00:10:31] some point you need to hold the CIA
[00:10:33] accountable. And um instead of holding
[00:10:35] the CIA accountable, people like um
[00:10:39] Kofer Black, George Tennant, um we had
[00:10:42] George Tennant getting a medal of
[00:10:43] freedom. But more disturbing to me was
[00:10:46] that you took the same director of the
[00:10:48] CIA that had so utterly failed before
[00:10:50] 9/11, utterly failed with the USS Cole
[00:10:54] um and you relied on him to give you
[00:10:57] intelligence for the WMD in Iraq and
[00:11:00] somehow you thought it was going to be
[00:11:01] credible and worthwhile. It it's
[00:11:04] inconceivable to me why President Bush
[00:11:06] would have done that, right? But he did
[00:11:09] and we relied on it and it turned out to
[00:11:11] be a lie. Okay. And so what you see is
[00:11:15] this systemic long-term carrying out of
[00:11:20] policy by American leaders, whether it's
[00:11:23] a president, a vice president, whether
[00:11:25] it's members of Congress, the intel
[00:11:26] committees, um that are sort of looking
[00:11:30] past these failures of the intel
[00:11:31] community. And again, it's not just the
[00:11:33] CIA. The FBI's got plenty to explain
[00:11:36] with regard to the 9/11 attacks. Um and
[00:11:39] they're never held accountable. they
[00:11:41] sort of act with impunity and people
[00:11:43] make cool movies about them and everyone
[00:11:46] thinks that, you know, they're above the
[00:11:48] law. Um, the reality is is that 3,000
[00:11:50] Americans were killed on US soil and the
[00:11:54] CIA and FBI 100% could have and should
[00:11:58] have prevented it. The NSA, uh, who does
[00:12:00] all the eavesdropping around the world,
[00:12:02] the wiretapping, they 100% had enough
[00:12:06] information to stop the attacks. And for
[00:12:08] whatever reason, the attacks weren't
[00:12:10] stopped. So, you know, naturally
[00:12:13] speaking, when something happens, um, a
[00:12:15] reasonable person is like, well, who
[00:12:17] benefited, right? Like, who benefited
[00:12:19] from not stopping this, from not
[00:12:22] preventing this murder of 3,000 people?
[00:12:25] And [clears throat] maybe in the early
[00:12:26] days, it was kind of hard to sort of
[00:12:28] decipher that. I think now, 24 years
[00:12:31] out, it's not that hard to figure out
[00:12:33] who benefited. Um, I know certainly who
[00:12:36] didn't benefit. Um, but I think that
[00:12:39] that's something that the American
[00:12:41] public needs to start considering and
[00:12:44] start wondering why we have a government
[00:12:48] um that's not willing to hold people
[00:12:51] that are responsible for this nation's
[00:12:53] worst terrorist attack accountable for
[00:12:55] their failures and for their, you know,
[00:12:59] in some ways uh negligence. I believe
[00:13:03] criminal negligence and not stopping the
[00:13:05] attacks. What's interesting is that what
[00:13:07] you said is identical, as far as I know,
[00:13:10] to what an awful lot of people who are
[00:13:12] involved in 9/11 think now. You know,
[00:13:14] government officials who were at
[00:13:16] whatever level were around the events,
[00:13:20] were making decisions based on the
[00:13:21] events, you know, who are right there.
[00:13:24] They all kind of think what, as far as I
[00:13:26] know, having asked a lot because we made
[00:13:28] this documentary series that you were
[00:13:29] nice enough to participate in. Um, the
[00:13:31] view you just expressed is like very
[00:13:33] common. You're not some lone wacko on
[00:13:35] the internet at all and you've been
[00:13:37] deeply involved in this for a quarter
[00:13:39] century, but all these other people have
[00:13:41] reached the same conclusion. So why is
[00:13:44] no one saying this out loud?
[00:13:46] >> I mean, I think that there's an
[00:13:47] institutional block on saying it out
[00:13:50] loud. I think it's exceedingly
[00:13:52] uncomfortable to think that, you know,
[00:13:54] there's blood on the hands of the United
[00:13:56] States government and its intelligence
[00:13:58] community. Um, and I think that, you
[00:14:01] know, there's a long game here where the
[00:14:02] more time that passes, the less and less
[00:14:05] interested the American public is,
[00:14:07] right?
[00:14:07] >> And not just the US government, by the
[00:14:09] way. I mean, I don't know your views on
[00:14:11] this, but I can I don't know the answer.
[00:14:13] I would have put it in the doc series if
[00:14:14] we'd found out. But I just know for a
[00:14:17] fact that a lot of noncrazy, highly
[00:14:19] informed people think that the US
[00:14:22] government, parts of the CIA
[00:14:24] specifically, which saw its role expand,
[00:14:26] its funding expand, it it won. Um, and
[00:14:30] also, you know, an allied government
[00:14:32] also got a lot out of this. Like that's
[00:14:33] what they think. Why will no one say
[00:14:35] that?
[00:14:36] >> Yeah. I mean, I think it's peculiar. I
[00:14:38] think that for me personally, my initial
[00:14:41] focus was on the US government failures.
[00:14:43] I was very interested in what the US
[00:14:45] government knew, why the attacks weren't
[00:14:48] prevented and um you know, that was my
[00:14:51] original focus. And then certainly we
[00:14:53] were sort of um coralled into
[00:14:56] considering the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.
[00:14:58] That happened through you know a
[00:15:00] confluence of things. The joint inquiry
[00:15:01] of Congress did an investigation. and
[00:15:03] they left 28 pages blank, blacked out,
[00:15:06] redacted, and you know, the whisper
[00:15:08] campaign began that it was the Kingdom
[00:15:10] of Saudi Arabia that had a strong hand
[00:15:12] in the attacks. They logistically and
[00:15:13] financially supported the hijackers. And
[00:15:16] you know, undoubtedly there's
[00:15:17] information there that um could support
[00:15:20] that scenario. There's also historic um
[00:15:23] facts that show that the US intelligence
[00:15:26] community and the Saudis work together.
[00:15:29] um you know speaking here about you
[00:15:30] [clears throat] know Iran Contra,
[00:15:32] speaking here as well about the years in
[00:15:35] uh Afghanistan with the Mujahedin. Um
[00:15:38] but then as years and years go by you
[00:15:40] start to consider about other foreign
[00:15:42] allies that um might have played a role.
[00:15:45] And what I think is most curious is the
[00:15:48] fact that we not only don't call for an
[00:15:51] examination, a real examination of our
[00:15:54] own intelligence community, the CIA, the
[00:15:56] NSA, the FBI, DIA, defense intelligence.
[00:16:00] Um there's been no clarion call for
[00:16:03] that. There has been somewhat of a drill
[00:16:05] and focus on the Kingdom of Saudi
[00:16:07] Arabia. And yet there's been nothing
[00:16:09] about um you know, the other ally in the
[00:16:12] region, which is Israel. And I think
[00:16:14] that that's curious. I think that there
[00:16:17] are um facts and circumstances that
[00:16:20] would warrant asking questions um and
[00:16:24] asking what Israel knew about the
[00:16:26] hijackers
[00:16:28] um time in the United States for the 18
[00:16:30] months before 9/11. Um and I think that
[00:16:33] there is, you know, some FBI 302s that
[00:16:36] talk about alleged MSAD agents, you
[00:16:40] know, filming near ground zero. there
[00:16:41] were a series of art students sort of
[00:16:44] shadowing the hijackers for the year
[00:16:47] before 9/11, you know, and I don't
[00:16:49] understand why that information isn't
[00:16:51] just offered up. Like, if no one did
[00:16:53] anything wrong, which is what everyone
[00:16:56] says, then why is that information not
[00:16:58] offered to the American public, in fact,
[00:17:00] to the world to just say, "Here's
[00:17:02] everything we did. Here's what we knew,
[00:17:04] and here's why we missed it." But
[00:17:06] instead of that, what you have is like
[00:17:08] pretty much a cover up and everything is
[00:17:10] shrouded in secrecy. Everything is
[00:17:12] overclassified. And to me, that makes
[00:17:15] things look kind of suspicious. And so
[00:17:18] that's what I would hope. I would hope
[00:17:20] that at this point um we should
[00:17:22] declassify everything. And when I say
[00:17:24] everything, I mean Richard Clark did a
[00:17:27] look back. President Bush uh like I
[00:17:30] think two days after 911 told Dick Clark
[00:17:32] who was the head of counterterrorism the
[00:17:34] counterterrorism ZAR um go back and look
[00:17:37] three months pulse the files find out
[00:17:39] what we knew about these this impending
[00:17:42] attack Clark did that and then Bush said
[00:17:45] you know what go 18 months now what's
[00:17:47] curious about that is when you go 18
[00:17:49] months from 911 you get to the
[00:17:50] millennium 2000 right and that is the
[00:17:53] the time period where not only the two
[00:17:56] hijackers that are always talked about,
[00:17:58] you know, Halid Midar and
[00:18:00] >> [clears throat]
[00:18:00] >> um Noah Fal Hosmi who came into the
[00:18:04] United States. The CIA knew that they
[00:18:05] were coming here. They should have
[00:18:07] informed the FBI because the FBI does
[00:18:09] domestic surveillance of terrorists. Um
[00:18:12] but the CIA didn't. The CIA withheld
[00:18:14] that information purposely. They knew
[00:18:16] that two known identified
[00:18:20] uh al-Qaeda operatives were coming into
[00:18:22] the United States. They purposely did
[00:18:24] not tell the FBI. Those two hijackers
[00:18:27] lived here for 18 months, planned, met
[00:18:30] up with the other hijackers, ultimately
[00:18:31] carried out the 911 attacks. In fact,
[00:18:33] those two hijackers were the ones that
[00:18:35] allegedly flew the plane into the
[00:18:36] Pentagon. Having said that, so we have
[00:18:40] um Richard Clark's look back back all
[00:18:43] the way to the millennium 2000. In
[00:18:45] addition to the two hijackers that came
[00:18:47] into the country at that point, we also
[00:18:48] had the arrest of Ahmad Rasam. He was
[00:18:51] picked up over the border coming into
[00:18:53] Seattle. Rasam was connected to the al
[00:18:57] Qaeda cell that carried out 911. So that
[00:19:00] happens in December of 2000. This is
[00:19:02] when Clinton is um ending up his
[00:19:06] presidency. Actually, I'm sorry,
[00:19:08] December 1999. Um Clinton is in there
[00:19:12] full-time. Burger is the national
[00:19:14] security adviser. Susan Rice is in
[00:19:17] there. They nab this guy, a
[00:19:19] [clears throat] terrorist coming across
[00:19:20] who's on his way to LAX to blow up LAX.
[00:19:23] Okay. He gets caught. January 15th,
[00:19:26] these two hijackers come in that the CIA
[00:19:29] knows about into LA. LAX like literally
[00:19:34] 2 weeks after was planning on blowing up
[00:19:36] LAX and they're all connected back to
[00:19:38] the camps in Afghanistan.
[00:19:40] >> Yes.
[00:19:40] >> But again, the CIA doesn't do anything.
[00:19:43] And apparently, according to the
[00:19:44] official story, the CIA knows these two
[00:19:46] guys are coming here. the two hijackers
[00:19:48] and just forgets about them. Doesn't do
[00:19:50] anything. Okay. What I think happened is
[00:19:53] I think that the Clinton administration
[00:19:54] was like, "This is not good. We have
[00:19:56] these two guys coming in. We need to do
[00:19:58] something. Let's farm it out. We
[00:20:00] [clears throat] can't trust the FBI.
[00:20:02] Let's give it to some foreign
[00:20:03] intelligence to keep an eye on these
[00:20:05] guys and see what they're up to." Now,
[00:20:08] if that happened, what we do then is we
[00:20:12] find out that the USS Cole bomb goes off
[00:20:15] in October of 2000. So that's now 9
[00:20:19] months, 10 months after these guys come
[00:20:20] in, the CIA supposedly lost track of
[00:20:22] them, but they go and they carry out the
[00:20:24] coal bombing overseas. Okay, at that
[00:20:27] point, if the Clinton administration did
[00:20:30] put together this op like, let's try to
[00:20:31] recruit these hijackers. Let's let the
[00:20:33] line out. Let's see what we can learn.
[00:20:35] They're listening into the aha toa
[00:20:37] switchboard. At that point, 17 sailors
[00:20:40] die. You need to stop what you're doing
[00:20:42] and you need to roll up the operation.
[00:20:44] You need to end it. And yet that didn't
[00:20:46] happen. So when President Bush
[00:20:50] 2 days after 9/11 looks at his terrorism
[00:20:53] and says, "I want you to do a look back.
[00:20:55] I want you to get everything out of the
[00:20:57] files that were connected to this." Do
[00:20:59] you think Richard Clark goes back to
[00:21:02] December of 1999 when they arrested
[00:21:04] Rasam? These two hijackers are coming
[00:21:06] into the country. He, Clinton, Burger,
[00:21:09] Tenant are sitting in a room and they're
[00:21:11] like, "What do we do? What should we do
[00:21:12] with this?" Do you think that that was
[00:21:14] in that review that Bush asked Dick
[00:21:16] Clark to do 2 days after 9/11?
[00:21:20] >> I don't know.
[00:21:21] >> Neither do I. But don't you think that
[00:21:22] the American public should know what
[00:21:23] Dick Clark found?
[00:21:24] >> We're sorry to say it, but this is not a
[00:21:26] very safe country. walk through Oakland
[00:21:28] or Philadelphia. Yeah, good luck. So,
[00:21:32] most people when they think about this
[00:21:33] want to carry a firearm and a lot of us
[00:21:35] do. The problem is [music] there can be
[00:21:37] massive consequences for that. Ask Kyle
[00:21:39] Writtenhouse. Kyle Writtenhouse got off
[00:21:41] in the end, but he was innocent from the
[00:21:42] first moment. It was obvious on video
[00:21:45] and he was facing life [music] in prison
[00:21:46] anyway. That's what the anti-gun
[00:21:49] movement will do. They'll throw you in
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[00:22:34] >> So that's never been released.
[00:22:35] >> It's never been released. And the other
[00:22:37] report
[00:22:37] >> on what grounds?
[00:22:39] >> They just don't release it. And Clark
[00:22:41] did another report. Well, I'll tell you
[00:22:43] why the second report can't get
[00:22:45] released. The second report that he did
[00:22:47] was the afteraction millennium report.
[00:22:49] And that was they caught Rasam at the
[00:22:51] border and they you know they have the
[00:22:54] two hijackers coming in to LAX, right?
[00:22:57] Same airport that RSA was going to blow
[00:22:58] up and um Richard Clark terrorism are
[00:23:02] Clinton administration draws up the
[00:23:06] Millennium afteraction report. That
[00:23:09] report is reportedly what Sandy
[00:23:12] Burgerer, former Clinton National
[00:23:14] Security Adviser, stole out of the
[00:23:15] National Archives, stuffed in his socks,
[00:23:18] permanently destroyed it. What would
[00:23:20] have been so important that Sandy
[00:23:23] Burgerer, who was, I guess, a fairly
[00:23:25] reputable former executive branch
[00:23:28] official,
[00:23:29] >> National Security Advisory,
[00:23:30] >> go to the National Archives and steal
[00:23:33] like I think seven sets of the
[00:23:35] Millennium After action report. Like
[00:23:37] what could have been in there that like
[00:23:38] he would have gone and done that?
[00:23:40] Meanwhile, we got
[00:23:41] >> it destroyed Sandy Burger's reputation.
[00:23:43] >> Did it though cuz he got community
[00:23:44] service?
[00:23:45] >> He did. No, you're absolutely right.
[00:23:47] >> I mean like we have other people that
[00:23:48] like leaked to newspapers and they're in
[00:23:50] jail, right? I mean,
[00:23:51] >> so what do you think was in that?
[00:23:53] >> I think it was the operation to try to
[00:23:55] recruit the very hijackers that
[00:23:57] ultimately carried out 9/11. And I think
[00:23:59] that that's what they were covering up.
[00:24:01] And what's interesting to me is that
[00:24:04] Burger got, you know, pinched during the
[00:24:08] Bush administration. It was actually
[00:24:09] during the commission, the 911
[00:24:11] commission. And uh Burgerer said that he
[00:24:13] was going to look at the documents to
[00:24:14] refresh his memory. What's really
[00:24:17] interesting is that the Bush
[00:24:18] administration, who was highly political
[00:24:20] and you know, run by Carl Rove, the
[00:24:22] strategist,
[00:24:23] >> Yeah.
[00:24:23] >> never really caused a ruckus about it.
[00:24:26] Like they just sort of like looked past
[00:24:28] it and like let Sandy go do his
[00:24:30] community service. And to me that meant
[00:24:32] that whatever he took must have
[00:24:35] protected both the Clinton
[00:24:36] administration and the Bush
[00:24:37] administration because the silence and
[00:24:40] the absolute, you know, vacuum of Carl
[00:24:43] Rove going after Sandy Burgerer during,
[00:24:45] you know, a midterm election year kind
[00:24:47] of like to me speaks to what he must
[00:24:50] have taken and who whose mess he was
[00:24:53] really cleaning up. So, those are two
[00:24:54] documents that I think need to be
[00:24:56] released to the American public to shed
[00:24:58] some light on what could have been done
[00:25:00] to prevent the attacks. Richard Clark's
[00:25:03] look back two days after 9/11 that
[00:25:05] President Bush ordered and the
[00:25:06] Millennium After action report. Then
[00:25:09] we've got um all of the NSA files. Now,
[00:25:11] the NSA had been listening to the
[00:25:13] Alhhata switchboard from like 96 on. So,
[00:25:16] that's a wealth of information, not only
[00:25:18] about 9/11, about the embassy bombings
[00:25:21] in East Africa, about the US's coal
[00:25:23] bombing. Um, I think that those files
[00:25:26] that have never been investigated, never
[00:25:29] been examined fully. Phil Zelico, the
[00:25:32] staff director of the 9/11 Commission,
[00:25:33] just didn't really see the need for it.
[00:25:35] Um, those should all be fully released.
[00:25:38] Um, I think the inspector general's
[00:25:40] report uh for the FBI failing to share
[00:25:44] information should be fully released to
[00:25:46] the public. No redactions. I think the
[00:25:48] CIA inspector general report. I think
[00:25:51] the NSA's
[00:25:53] uh I don't think they have an inspector
[00:25:54] general. I think Treasury's FINA
[00:25:56] >> they don't even bother.
[00:25:57] >> They don't have to. Um I think those
[00:26:00] types of IG reports need to come out the
[00:26:03] classified version. It's now 25 years
[00:26:05] later. There's no sources and methods.
[00:26:08] There's no need to protect national
[00:26:09] security. There's no Mousawi trial.
[00:26:11] Those are all the things that we were
[00:26:12] always told. We can't tell you this
[00:26:14] information because it'll hurt the
[00:26:15] Mousawi trial or its sources and
[00:26:17] methods.
[00:26:18] >> Seen that a lot. Yeah. It'll hurt the
[00:26:19] trial,
[00:26:20] >> right? And I think that all of those
[00:26:22] things need to come out and be released.
[00:26:24] I think the 28 pages, the classified and
[00:26:27] unclassified versions without redactions
[00:26:29] need to come out. Um, and I think the
[00:26:31] 9/11 Commission source files um need to
[00:26:36] be fully available to the American
[00:26:38] public, ideally released to some sort of
[00:26:41] like Dogeel like um staff who could
[00:26:45] digitize it and put in like some sort of
[00:26:48] um you know like database searchable
[00:26:52] um system so that the American public
[00:26:54] can actually search those files. The
[00:26:56] problem with the 9/11 commission source
[00:26:58] documents is that they're almost
[00:27:00] impossible to look through. They're all
[00:27:03] at the National Archives. What is
[00:27:05] digital is highly redacted and they're
[00:27:08] impossible to find. There's no finding
[00:27:11] aid that makes any sense. And I think
[00:27:12] that's on purpose, but those are the
[00:27:14] types of things that I think 25 years
[00:27:16] out like why aren't we getting them? And
[00:27:18] why isn't President Trump demanding
[00:27:20] their release? I I don't understand
[00:27:22] except of course I do understand which
[00:27:23] is that there's something awful at the
[00:27:26] heart of this. I mean that's just so
[00:27:27] clearly true. We know that from the
[00:27:29] behavior of the people who are keeping
[00:27:30] this secret. So in the decades that
[00:27:33] you've been dealing with US government
[00:27:36] officials on the question of 9/11, have
[00:27:39] you ever gotten any indication from any
[00:27:41] of them, you know, off the record that
[00:27:44] this is not what it looks like?
[00:27:47] Have you ever talked to anyone who works
[00:27:49] for the US government who seems to
[00:27:51] understand that this is a that there's a
[00:27:53] big lie at the heart of this?
[00:27:55] >> I mean, I think that it's the biggest
[00:27:58] open secret in Washington DC.
[00:28:00] >> Oh, is that true?
[00:28:01] >> I feel like in many ways, like a lot of
[00:28:03] members of Congress know. I feel like
[00:28:05] certainly the intel committees know. Um,
[00:28:07] and that kind of blows my mind because I
[00:28:09] feel like
[00:28:10] >> you're sure of that.
[00:28:11] >> I mean, I'm not sure, but obviously they
[00:28:13] all have clearances. They have access to
[00:28:14] the files. Um, you know, anyone could
[00:28:17] have gone in and read the 28 pages, the
[00:28:19] secret 28 pages. If you're a member of
[00:28:21] Congress, you have clearance. You go
[00:28:22] into a skiff. You're allowed to read
[00:28:24] that. Um, I don't know why every member
[00:28:26] of Congress didn't go and do that.
[00:28:28] Frankly, if I was a member of Congress,
[00:28:29] I would have went and recited them on
[00:28:31] the congressional floor for the American
[00:28:33] public.
[00:28:33] >> Go ahead and arrest me.
[00:28:34] >> Right. Well, I mean, it's America first
[00:28:36] in my mind. Um, and I don't think we
[00:28:38] should protect any foreign ally or
[00:28:40] nation. If you've had a role and you
[00:28:42] could have prevented the murder of 3,000
[00:28:44] people, the American public needs to
[00:28:46] know that and needs to make their own
[00:28:48] determination as to whether or not you
[00:28:49] >> think that's the heart of this is
[00:28:50] protecting a foreign country.
[00:28:52] >> I think it's protecting a few foreign
[00:28:54] countries probably. Um, and I think it's
[00:28:57] also protecting the United States intel
[00:29:00] community. I mean, there's no doubt.
[00:29:02] >> So, you you said a couple of things I
[00:29:04] don't want to let slip through the
[00:29:05] cracks. one that from the very first
[00:29:08] days of the investigation into this
[00:29:12] Saudi the Kingdom KSA King of Saudi
[00:29:15] Arabia was sort of steered toward you as
[00:29:19] a a culprit.
[00:29:20] >> Absolutely. They were like the usual
[00:29:22] suspect, right? And isn't that
[00:29:24] convenient? It's like it was all Saudi
[00:29:26] all the time, right? And so
[00:29:28] >> I bought that completely.
[00:29:29] >> Well, and I mean it's Listen, it's a
[00:29:32] it's what's done, right? You're using
[00:29:34] it's distraction. It's a totally
[00:29:37] political strategy to distract people
[00:29:39] from reality, right? And so, and
[00:29:42] frankly, the Saudis aren't completely
[00:29:43] innocent when it comes to, you know,
[00:29:45] they have a lot of um things that have
[00:29:49] happened in the past that would, you
[00:29:51] know, fit the bill for why they might be
[00:29:53] the usual suspect. But I think, you
[00:29:54] know,
[00:29:55] >> well, I don't know. The Saudis are not
[00:29:56] into No Arab monarchy is into regime
[00:29:59] change,
[00:30:00] >> right?
[00:30:00] >> So, anything having to do with the
[00:30:02] toppling of Saddam, they would not have
[00:30:03] been for that.
[00:30:04] >> Oh. It's not how they see the world at
[00:30:05] all.
[00:30:06] >> I would agree.
[00:30:06] >> They don't like chaos in Saudi,
[00:30:08] >> right? And on So for the war in Iraq, I
[00:30:11] don't I don't know how that that how
[00:30:14] anyone could credibly explain that the
[00:30:17] kingdom did 9/11 because they wanted to
[00:30:19] queue up Iraq. I don't think it makes
[00:30:21] any sense.
[00:30:22] >> They hate chaos. I mean, they're
[00:30:23] long-term stakeholders. It's a monarchy,
[00:30:25] >> right? And that's what I ask a lot of
[00:30:27] people that are always like, "The
[00:30:28] Saudis, the Saudis, the Saudis." I'm
[00:30:29] like, "Well, okay, but why?" you know,
[00:30:32] for me, like what would have been the
[00:30:34] motive? Why would the Kingdom of Saudi
[00:30:36] Arabia want to attack the United States,
[00:30:39] kill 3,000 people, what was in it for
[00:30:42] them? You know, if you're if you're a
[00:30:44] evildoer and you're over in Saudi,
[00:30:46] you're like, "Hey, let's do this." What
[00:30:48] were they thinking they were going to
[00:30:49] get out of it? And realistically
[00:30:51] speaking, what did they get out of it?
[00:30:53] Right? And from what I see is they've
[00:30:55] been tied up in litigation now for 24
[00:30:57] years, um, being blamed for 9/11. And
[00:31:01] so, you know, I don't know whether they
[00:31:04] did it or not. I don't have access to
[00:31:05] the classified files, but I don't think
[00:31:07] that they're alone. I think that there
[00:31:09] are other foreign governments that
[00:31:10] should also be examined. And I think
[00:31:12] it's peculiar that for whatever reason,
[00:31:15] there's no questions about the other
[00:31:16] foreign governments. And to me, that
[00:31:18] sticks out. And it's like, well, are we
[00:31:20] just being distracted with the kingdom?
[00:31:22] What about the kingdom and other foreign
[00:31:24] nations? What about the kingdom, other
[00:31:26] foreign nations, and the US government
[00:31:28] intelligence apparatus? because you know
[00:31:31] there's a reason why no one wants you
[00:31:33] asking those questions and that in and
[00:31:35] of itself should raise the hair on the
[00:31:37] back of your neck.
[00:31:39] >> It does. And I was slow to pick up any
[00:31:41] of this. I I bought it completely
[00:31:44] until I was told by someone um who's a
[00:31:47] very knowledgeable person works for the
[00:31:49] US government like it's not Saudi we're
[00:31:51] protecting. Whoa. That had never entered
[00:31:53] my tiny brain.
[00:31:54] >> Someone said that to you.
[00:31:55] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Someone who would know
[00:31:57] had seen the documents.
[00:31:58] >> Someone said Yeah. Yeah, we're not. And
[00:32:01] I don't know. I think of myself as above
[00:32:03] average in IQ, but apparently I'm not
[00:32:04] cuz that had never had never entered my
[00:32:06] brain. I was like, really? What? Um, and
[00:32:09] I think it is because Saudi, like every
[00:32:12] American grows up with mixed feelings
[00:32:13] about Saudi,
[00:32:15] clearly dominant in the energy markets,
[00:32:18] and that's good for us, has been good
[00:32:20] for us. study Ramco's good for us but
[00:32:24] you know too foreign polygamy beheadings
[00:32:27] veiled women like everything about it is
[00:32:29] just so far away and kind of scary that
[00:32:31] when somebody says it was the Saudis you
[00:32:34] know you're like yeah probably Saudis I
[00:32:36] seem weird you know
[00:32:38] but I'm just it's just dawning on me
[00:32:40] that maybe some of that but dawn on you
[00:32:42] early this being pushed on you it was
[00:32:44] the Saudis
[00:32:45] >> well because it was really overt that it
[00:32:46] was being pushed on us
[00:32:47] >> really
[00:32:48] >> well I think so yeah I mean We asked the
[00:32:51] lawyers to sue a whole slew of
[00:32:53] countries. Um, you know, because I think
[00:32:55] that there were some fingerprints there
[00:32:57] for several countries and we were told
[00:32:59] no. Um, you know, not to
[00:33:02] >> You're told you couldn't sue foreign
[00:33:03] countries.
[00:33:04] >> Yeah. Certain ones that I wanted to sue.
[00:33:06] Um, you know, the reality is all of the
[00:33:09] financing for the hijackers flew through
[00:33:11] Dubai. I was like, why aren't we suing
[00:33:13] the Emirates? Um, Pakistan. I was like,
[00:33:15] why aren't we going after Pakistan? Um,
[00:33:17] I'm not saying that they had a hand in
[00:33:19] either of those countries had a hand in
[00:33:20] it, but I was like, why aren't we at
[00:33:22] least looking into it? And I think one
[00:33:24] of the biggest frustrations for me is
[00:33:26] the US government's Department of
[00:33:28] Justice's failure, abject failure to
[00:33:31] prosecute anyone. The US government
[00:33:34] didn't investigate anything. They didn't
[00:33:36] look into Saudi. They didn't really
[00:33:39] credibly look into UAE. They didn't look
[00:33:41] into Pakist. They did nothing. They
[00:33:43] literally have not to this day
[00:33:45] successfully and fully prosecuted anyone
[00:33:48] for the 9/11 attacks. How is that
[00:33:50] possible? 3,000 people were murdered. If
[00:33:53] you're a US attorney, your job is to go
[00:33:56] out and investigate that murder and
[00:33:58] prosecute people, have a grand jury,
[00:34:00] hold people accountable, put them in
[00:34:02] jail. You're telling me that with all of
[00:34:04] the money that flew in and out of this
[00:34:06] country connected to the hijackers,
[00:34:08] there wasn't one bank account, there
[00:34:11] wasn't one stock trade that you could
[00:34:13] drill down on and find out that someone
[00:34:15] had foreign knowledge. And if they had
[00:34:16] foreign knowledge, well, how the hell
[00:34:17] did they have the foreign knowledge?
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[00:35:39] those are the basics. You know, that's
[00:35:41] the case on 911. It's also the case with
[00:35:43] Charlie Kirk's murder. You know, it was
[00:35:45] people had fornowledge cuz they bragged
[00:35:47] about it online on X
[00:35:50] and those people have not been arrested.
[00:35:52] I don't know that they've been
[00:35:53] questioned, by the way. Maybe they have
[00:35:56] been. I just don't know. I've asked.
[00:35:57] Can't can't quite get an answer there.
[00:35:59] Uh but I know on 911 there were stock
[00:36:01] trades that proved fornowledge
[00:36:03] >> absolutely
[00:36:04] >> of the airlines of the banks um in the
[00:36:06] buildings that were hit and the US
[00:36:08] government said yeah we know who did
[00:36:09] those we executed those trades
[00:36:11] >> but we we're not going to tell you.
[00:36:12] >> Isn't that unbelievable?
[00:36:13] >> What is that? That's what I'm saying
[00:36:15] like how unbel and so what happened is
[00:36:17] when the US government doesn't take it
[00:36:20] upon itself to to have a prosecution to
[00:36:22] have an investigation. Um it's left to
[00:36:25] the victim's families to hire lawyers
[00:36:28] and do it on their own. And you're
[00:36:29] really hamstrung to do that. Like you're
[00:36:32] talking about a terrorist attack where
[00:36:34] all the documents are classified. It's
[00:36:36] all held by the government. Everything
[00:36:37] that you need to to learn about your
[00:36:40] case, to build your case is in the
[00:36:41] government's hands. and the government
[00:36:42] refuses to give you that information.
[00:36:45] And so we're kind of left in this limbo
[00:36:48] where the US government didn't do its
[00:36:50] job to prevent the attacks, then the
[00:36:52] Department of Justice after 9/11 didn't
[00:36:54] do its job to prosecute or hold anyone
[00:36:56] accountable and provide justice to the
[00:36:59] murdered victim's families. And so the
[00:37:01] murdered victim's families turned to the
[00:37:03] civil litigation process, which if
[00:37:05] everyone remembers OJ, you know, it was
[00:37:07] what Nicole Simpson's family had to do.
[00:37:10] you know, it's kind of a shitty second.
[00:37:12] Like, yeah, it's really not helpful. And
[00:37:15] so, that's what we were relegated to.
[00:37:17] And then those attorneys, not all of
[00:37:18] them, but many of them were just
[00:37:21] unwilling. First of all, they were
[00:37:22] unwilling to sue the US government.
[00:37:24] Like, and I asked, I've got the emails
[00:37:26] to prove it. And then I asked,
[00:37:28] >> why were they unwilling to sue the US
[00:37:29] government? They just told first they
[00:37:31] told us we weren't allowed which is not
[00:37:33] true because in the wake of you know the
[00:37:35] last 20 years you see the Emanuel Church
[00:37:37] family suing you see the Fort Hood
[00:37:39] family suing. You are allowed to sue the
[00:37:41] US government. Um our attorneys
[00:37:43] initially told us that we couldn't. Of
[00:37:45] course we were also forced into what the
[00:37:48] government did which was the victim's
[00:37:50] compensation fund. um which was
[00:37:53] retroactively taking away our right to
[00:37:55] sue by capping liability levels from
[00:37:58] 9/11. So what happened was 911 happens
[00:38:02] the towers collapse you know the country
[00:38:05] is worried about being destabilized the
[00:38:07] economy is going to crater the airlines
[00:38:09] >> so supposedly Congress swept in you know
[00:38:13] um heroically and created the airline
[00:38:15] stabilization bill um and I don't know
[00:38:18] how they wrote that bill cuz it's pretty
[00:38:21] precise but yet somehow they wrote it in
[00:38:24] like 9 days um and in doing so
[00:38:27] retroactively capped liability ility
[00:38:30] levels for anyone for the airlines for
[00:38:32] the city of New York. Um later like 2
[00:38:35] months later, President Bush capped the
[00:38:36] liability levels for Boeing airlines. Um
[00:38:40] and essentially the widows and kids were
[00:38:41] left being told, "You're not going to be
[00:38:44] able to sue because there's not enough
[00:38:46] money to pay you. There were so many
[00:38:48] people killed. There's just not enough
[00:38:50] money. So, you're going to have to go
[00:38:51] into this victim's compensation fund um
[00:38:54] run by this special master and you'll be
[00:38:56] paid an amount of money and it's no
[00:38:59] fault and go away.
[00:39:02] And you know, as an American citizen, a
[00:39:04] lawyer, I was like, wait a minute,
[00:39:06] you're not allowed to take away
[00:39:07] someone's right to sue after the murder.
[00:39:10] Like, that's not how it works. And yet,
[00:39:12] we weren't given a choice. It was shoved
[00:39:14] down our throats. And so, that's what we
[00:39:17] were left with. And the legislation that
[00:39:19] created this was written in nine days.
[00:39:21] >> Like nine days.
[00:39:22] >> So you're
[00:39:23] >> and it's pretty comprehensive.
[00:39:24] >> You're a lawyer. Um as you just said,
[00:39:28] how hard would it be to write leg? So
[00:39:30] you can take the first three days off
[00:39:31] cuz like it's right after 9/11. The
[00:39:33] country's in chaos.
[00:39:34] >> I don't know. Condi Rice immediately
[00:39:35] after 9/11 is sitting with the National
[00:39:38] Security Council and I was like, "How
[00:39:39] can we capitalize on this opportunity?"
[00:39:41] So
[00:39:42] >> she said that
[00:39:42] >> she said that capitalize on this
[00:39:45] opportunity. so evil.
[00:39:46] >> The pile was still burning. And she's
[00:39:48] How can we capitalize on this
[00:39:50] opportunity? My head split in half when
[00:39:53] I read that quote. Literally like I just
[00:39:56] was like,
[00:39:56] >> she's been rewarded. She runs Hoover.
[00:40:00] Close friend of Philip Zelico. Um
[00:40:02] >> Exactly.
[00:40:03] >> Yeah. So the
[00:40:04] >> So my point is we were not allowed to s
[00:40:07] like first of all the US government did
[00:40:09] nothing. We were relegated to this fund
[00:40:12] that was quote unquote no fault. there
[00:40:14] was going to be no trials, no
[00:40:16] investigation, no hearing, no discovery,
[00:40:18] no cross-examination, no jury. And so
[00:40:21] what we were allowed to do was to sue
[00:40:23] the co-conspirators.
[00:40:25] But again, the US government didn't go
[00:40:27] after any quote unquote co-conspirators.
[00:40:28] They threw them all down at Guantanamo
[00:40:30] and waterboarded them, tortured them. So
[00:40:33] there's no, you know, going after them,
[00:40:35] right? And so we were left with the
[00:40:37] civil litigation system, um, lawyers,
[00:40:41] many of whom were like aviation
[00:40:42] attorneys. One group is former tobacco,
[00:40:45] big tobacco attorneys. Um, and they were
[00:40:48] willing to go after the Kingdom of Saudi
[00:40:49] Arabia and the rest of these entities,
[00:40:52] whether it was a foreign government,
[00:40:54] Emirates, Pakistan,
[00:40:56] or the US government. We were told no
[00:40:58] can.
[00:40:59] >> What about Israel?
[00:41:00] >> Oh, that would have never come up.
[00:41:02] >> Why?
[00:41:03] >> I don't know. That's what I'm saying.
[00:41:04] Like to me when you're not asking
[00:41:08] very, you know, pragmatic, obvious
[00:41:11] questions and people don't even ask the
[00:41:13] question or if you do ask the question,
[00:41:15] you just sort of get shut down. To me,
[00:41:18] that makes me suspicious, right? Like,
[00:41:21] why aren't we going after those
[00:41:23] countries? Why isn't my country looking
[00:41:25] into those countries and what they knew?
[00:41:27] And yet there's never been an interest.
[00:41:30] And I think that that's suspicious.
[00:41:33] Well, by definition, by definition, I
[00:41:36] mean, science and law enforcement have
[00:41:37] one thing in common. Every possibility
[00:41:39] has to be considered,
[00:41:41] >> maybe immediately discarded, but if you
[00:41:43] don't consider a possibility, then
[00:41:44] you're clearly not working to get the
[00:41:46] truth, right? You're covering something
[00:41:48] up,
[00:41:49] >> not trying to illuminate it. Um, yeah.
[00:41:51] Again, by definition, I can't let this
[00:41:53] pass. I don't want to forget to ask you
[00:41:55] about it. At the outset of our
[00:41:56] conversation, you said not only did the
[00:41:58] US government fail to protect the
[00:42:01] country, pardon fasia, but they did
[00:42:04] nothing to mitigate the effects of the
[00:42:06] crime once it happened. Something like
[00:42:08] that. What does that mean?
[00:42:09] >> Right. So, um, not only did they fail to
[00:42:13] prevent the attacks from happening,
[00:42:14] which Tom Kaine, commissioner of the,
[00:42:16] uh, chairman of the 911 commission,
[00:42:19] clearly said the 911 attacks 100% could
[00:42:22] have and should have been prevented.
[00:42:23] There was enough information in the
[00:42:25] pipeline for it to be stopped on a
[00:42:27] number of occasions. It's not just like
[00:42:29] one instance, several instances where
[00:42:32] the plot could have been unraveled,
[00:42:33] stopped, 3,000 lives saved. Okay? Or at
[00:42:36] least the attack delayed in enough time
[00:42:39] to learn more and really stop the
[00:42:41] ultimate attack. That's number one. But
[00:42:43] on the day of 9/11, um the US government
[00:42:46] did absolutely nothing in a defensive
[00:42:48] posture to mitigate the damage of the
[00:42:51] attacks. What does that mean? First and
[00:42:53] foremost, my husband was on the 94th
[00:42:55] floor of the second tower. He called me
[00:42:58] um after the first building was hit and
[00:43:00] he's like, "I don't want you to worry.
[00:43:02] It's not my building. Don't worry." And
[00:43:04] I said, "You know what's going on? I'm
[00:43:06] truncating the story." And he said,
[00:43:08] "They're telling us to stay at our
[00:43:09] desks." Well, an elevator in the World
[00:43:12] Trade Center went to top to bottom in a
[00:43:14] minute's time. If at 8:58 the port
[00:43:18] authority and the companies didn't tell
[00:43:20] people like my husband to stay at their
[00:43:22] desks and told them to evacuate, those
[00:43:25] people would have gotten below the zone
[00:43:26] of impact and survived in the second
[00:43:28] tower. In my opinion, there is no excuse
[00:43:31] for any loss of life in the second
[00:43:33] building. And in the first building, the
[00:43:35] only loss of life should have been above
[00:43:37] the impact zone. Okay, that's one way
[00:43:40] that lives could have been saved and
[00:43:43] damage could have been mitigated. Number
[00:43:45] two, Christy Todd Whitman told the
[00:43:47] rescue workers all of New York that the
[00:43:50] air was safe to breathe. We were told
[00:43:52] early on when people caught, you know,
[00:43:54] that we were, you know, the Jersey girls
[00:43:56] were fighting and trying to get the
[00:43:57] truth. We were told that the sniffers
[00:44:00] that were put around ground zero,
[00:44:02] they're supposed to be at a certain
[00:44:03] height above the ground to sniff the
[00:44:06] air. they were above the point where
[00:44:09] they were supposed to be. So that the
[00:44:10] air that they were testing wasn't the
[00:44:13] actual air that people were breathing.
[00:44:16] Okay, another prime example, the air was
[00:44:18] not safe to breathe. I don't know what
[00:44:20] was used in those attacks, but I know
[00:44:22] that it's caused a lot of cancer. Okay,
[00:44:25] but
[00:44:26] >> I think that's pretty much proven at
[00:44:27] this point.
[00:44:28] >> I think it's pretty much proven. Um, and
[00:44:30] so when the US government goes and tells
[00:44:33] thousands of people, I think at this
[00:44:35] point there's 70,000 that the air was
[00:44:38] safe to breathe, they're responsible for
[00:44:40] that. All of those people have been
[00:44:42] injured and harmed. Some of them have
[00:44:43] died since then. That is an example of
[00:44:46] devastation, illness, disease that could
[00:44:49] have been stopped, might not have even
[00:44:51] ever happened if the US government did
[00:44:53] its job. The biggest one um that I think
[00:44:56] speaks to what doesn't make a lot of
[00:44:58] sense um is the scrambling of the jets.
[00:45:02] So on the day of 9/11 um there were a
[00:45:05] series of procedures and protocols in
[00:45:07] place for hijacking of planes um and the
[00:45:11] North American um air defense NORAD um
[00:45:16] scrambles jets. So what happens is you
[00:45:17] know people forget but like in the 70s
[00:45:20] there were a lot of hijackings.
[00:45:21] >> Oh to Cuba.
[00:45:23] >> Yeah. Exactly. And they were kind of
[00:45:24] common place. Like I've read a couple of
[00:45:26] articles recently where you know an
[00:45:28] eastern plane was hijacked. Everyone was
[00:45:30] chill about it. They just like served
[00:45:31] cocktails and you went to Cuba which is
[00:45:34] kind of surreal.
[00:45:35] >> 90 miles out of your way.
[00:45:36] >> Yeah. It was like there were no
[00:45:37] fatalities.
[00:45:38] >> Free booze like Right. And they were
[00:45:40] just kind of like a nuisance and the
[00:45:42] pilots were chill about it and whatever
[00:45:43] and so were the flight attendants.
[00:45:45] Everyone was trained. But regardless,
[00:45:46] what happened was a couple of things.
[00:45:48] Like number one, you know, they started
[00:45:50] the sky marshall program, which required
[00:45:52] that if there was something suspicious
[00:45:54] about someone going on a plane, a sky
[00:45:56] marshal whose job it was to keep an eye
[00:45:58] on things and keep the plane safe, was
[00:45:59] on the plane. Um the other thing that
[00:46:02] happened was that they had a protocol
[00:46:03] that F-16s
[00:46:05] if there is a hijacking or the suspicion
[00:46:07] of a hijacking were supposed to be
[00:46:09] scrambled um to go up to meet the plane
[00:46:13] and to do a series of things to sort of
[00:46:15] find out if it isn't a hijacking and to
[00:46:18] stop it to thwart it to threaten
[00:46:19] whatever. Okay. Well, on 911 um for some
[00:46:23] reason the first plane flight 11 was
[00:46:27] confirmed hijacked at 8:14 in the
[00:46:29] morning. 8:14.
[00:46:31] Um, and the planes did not scramble,
[00:46:34] according to the 911 commission, until
[00:46:36] after the Pentagon was hit at 9:38.
[00:46:40] So that's like an hour and 20 minutes.
[00:46:44] Um, typically, historically speaking,
[00:46:46] the F-16s scramble within a few minutes.
[00:46:49] They're up airborne at, you know, full
[00:46:52] speed. Um, and the saying back in the
[00:46:55] day was that if you had a plane that was
[00:46:58] not behaving normally, you'd find an
[00:47:01] F-16 on your tail within 10 minutes.
[00:47:04] That was actually a bit of grace. Um, it
[00:47:06] was really like 5 to 6 minutes. And for
[00:47:08] some bizarre reason, um, on the morning
[00:47:11] of September 11th, those F-16s didn't
[00:47:13] get up in time. More to the point, the
[00:47:16] air bases where there were F-16
[00:47:18] squadrons that could have gone and
[00:47:20] intercepted the the errant planes on
[00:47:22] 911, um they didn't call the the F-16s
[00:47:25] from there. They called them from bases
[00:47:27] that were further away. Um a perfect
[00:47:29] example, U Meuire Air Force Base in New
[00:47:31] Jersey had F-16s. They brought the
[00:47:33] planes from Otis, which was like I think
[00:47:36] 200 miles away from the city and away
[00:47:38] from the planes. um down in DC, instead
[00:47:41] of running uh the F-16s out of Andrews,
[00:47:44] they ran them out of um uh I can't think
[00:47:47] of the name of the but out of Maryland
[00:47:49] instead.
[00:47:50] >> And so what happened was the planes were
[00:47:53] hijacked and just allowed to crash into
[00:47:55] the buildings with no interception
[00:47:57] >> except for the final plane, Flight 93
[00:47:59] over Pennsylvania. A number of
[00:48:00] eyewitnesses, many eyewitnesses saw
[00:48:02] military aircraft near that plane.
[00:48:04] >> Yep, they did.
[00:48:05] >> So what was that?
[00:48:07] >> I don't know. I mean, obviously there's
[00:48:08] talk that it was shot down.
[00:48:10] >> Well, Dick Cheney gave the order.
[00:48:12] >> He did give the order,
[00:48:13] >> right? And then they said, "But we
[00:48:15] didn't actually do it." And then there
[00:48:17] was a very elaborate story about what
[00:48:19] happened inside the plane and kind of a
[00:48:21] heartwarming wonderful story. The
[00:48:23] protagonist was called Todd Beamer
[00:48:26] and he, you know, let's roll and they
[00:48:28] roll a drink card against the
[00:48:30] >> It's a heroic. This is a wonderful story
[00:48:32] and they they made a movie about it and
[00:48:34] all this stuff, but um that was
[00:48:37] celebrated and it should be celebrated.
[00:48:39] It's a great story. I'm not attacking
[00:48:40] anybody of course, but it did have the
[00:48:43] feeling of like we're going to make this
[00:48:45] into a great story. And it did make me
[00:48:47] wonder like whatever happened to that
[00:48:49] shoot down the plane order and there
[00:48:51] were military aircraft next to the
[00:48:52] plane.
[00:48:54] Like what should we think about that?
[00:48:56] >> Yeah, I mean I think that you could
[00:48:57] drill down on that. go to Otis Air Force
[00:49:00] Base and, you know, get the files, find
[00:49:03] out when those F-16s left, if they were
[00:49:04] armed, and if they came back with the
[00:49:06] same amount of missiles that they left
[00:49:07] with. It's not that hard to figure out.
[00:49:09] You could test the soil.
[00:49:10] >> Has anyone done that?
[00:49:11] >> I don't know. Um, I don't know if
[00:49:14] anyone's asked. You know, if you don't
[00:49:16] ask, you don't get. But I know that
[00:49:18] there were eyewitnesses at the crash at
[00:49:20] 93 that said that it was unlike any
[00:49:22] crash scene that they'd ever seen. that
[00:49:25] there was no fuselage, that there was
[00:49:26] no, you know, evidence of the plane
[00:49:28] seats, of luggage, of, you know, it was
[00:49:30] just a black hole. Um, I read a lot of
[00:49:34] books and, uh, I'm really good at going
[00:49:36] to used book sales and finding old books
[00:49:39] and there's a lot of 9/11 books that you
[00:49:41] can pick up at used book sales and one
[00:49:42] of them is a group of reporters, um,
[00:49:45] that put a book together with their
[00:49:46] photos and their uh, recollection from
[00:49:49] the day of 9/11. And I read with great
[00:49:51] interest uh the two sections of that
[00:49:53] book, one on the Pentagon and one on
[00:49:55] Flight 93 because when you read these
[00:49:58] reporters um information about both
[00:50:02] crash sites and what they experienced
[00:50:04] that day, uh it doesn't really match up
[00:50:07] to what we've been told.
[00:50:08] >> Can you give me an example?
[00:50:10] >> Sure. Like I said, the crash site at um
[00:50:12] in uh Shanksville, these reporters had
[00:50:15] seen airplane crash sites before.
[00:50:17] They've reported on them. their
[00:50:18] mainstream reporters. Um, and they just
[00:50:21] said it was like really curious. There
[00:50:22] was no visible sign of a plane anywhere.
[00:50:25] There were no engines, there were no
[00:50:27] seatbacks, there were no luggage, there
[00:50:28] was no nothing. Um, I will say I think
[00:50:31] that was one of the planes where they
[00:50:32] did find a passport. Um, the
[00:50:35] eyewitnesses that were literally there,
[00:50:37] they came from Pittsburgh, I think, and
[00:50:38] got to the scene quite early. Um, and
[00:50:40] then suddenly, you know, like federal
[00:50:43] agents came and like pushed them all
[00:50:44] back, pushed them all back, took film,
[00:50:46] took cameras, what have you. Um, I think
[00:50:49] that that's curious. So, that doesn't
[00:50:50] really, you know, raises questions like
[00:50:53] what happened. Um, and I think the
[00:50:55] Pentagon is obviously a really good
[00:50:57] question. I think that we've been told
[00:50:59] that Hani Hour, the hijacker that flew
[00:51:01] that plane, um, you know, was
[00:51:04] responsible for what was considered in
[00:51:07] pilot circles an extraordinary maneuver.
[00:51:10] Um, and Hani Hondur a month or two
[00:51:13] before 9/11 almost got kicked out of
[00:51:16] flight school cuz he was that
[00:51:17] incompetent. He didn't speak English.
[00:51:19] Um, how someone like that would have
[00:51:21] been able to pull off that maneuver.
[00:51:23] Putting aside the fact that the um air
[00:51:27] defense that was on top of the Pentagon
[00:51:29] and at the White House also didn't lock
[00:51:32] on to the plane and shoot it down. Um or
[00:51:35] they weren't even I you know there's no
[00:51:37] evidence whatsoever that any of the
[00:51:39] missiles that were on top of the
[00:51:41] Pentagon defense uh missiles that were
[00:51:44] designed to protect the Pentagon from
[00:51:46] anything, they didn't go off and neither
[00:51:49] did the ones at the White House. So I
[00:51:51] think that that's kind of weird. Um, I
[00:51:53] also think it's weird. We had a real
[00:51:55] long conversation with the commission
[00:51:56] about the lack of radar evidence of
[00:51:59] flight 77 from the Kentucky Ohio border
[00:52:03] all the way back um to the Pentagon. Uh,
[00:52:06] I remember the call quite vividly and uh
[00:52:09] we were told that in all of history
[00:52:12] before and the time after there has
[00:52:15] never been an anomaly in the radar. Uh
[00:52:18] just by way of background, the United
[00:52:20] States has several layers of radar. You
[00:52:23] know, everything from traffic radar all
[00:52:25] the way up. And yet this like 12 or 13
[00:52:29] layers of radar coverage was this
[00:52:32] anomaly. It all broke down at one time.
[00:52:35] Every single system completely just
[00:52:38] didn't work from the time that flight 77
[00:52:42] flew from the Kentucky Ohio border to
[00:52:43] the Pentagon. There's no evidence of it
[00:52:45] whatsoever. And so
[00:52:47] >> there's [clears throat] no radar image
[00:52:48] at all of Flight 77 flying toward the
[00:52:51] Pentagon.
[00:52:52] >> Um not from the Ohio Kentucky border,
[00:52:54] which is where um the last
[00:52:56] >> Louisville area.
[00:52:57] >> Yeah. Um to the Pentagon, like the DC
[00:53:00] Aerospace was when they picked it up
[00:53:02] again. And I think what's interesting is
[00:53:04] that initially flight 77, three things
[00:53:07] happened to that plane at the Ohio
[00:53:09] Kentucky border. Um, and typically,
[00:53:12] historically speaking, when those three
[00:53:13] things happen, it's always an airplane
[00:53:15] crash. So, the first thing that happened
[00:53:17] was the transponder um was disengaged.
[00:53:20] The second thing that happened was the
[00:53:22] primary radar of that plane um went
[00:53:26] away. Primary radar is when radar waves
[00:53:30] um hit an object in the sky, if it's a
[00:53:33] bird, if it's a plane, what have you,
[00:53:35] and it bounces back. So, at this one
[00:53:38] place over the Ohio Kentucky border, the
[00:53:40] transponder disconnected and the skin
[00:53:42] radar for flight 77 disappeared, which
[00:53:45] means it was no longer in the sky. Um,
[00:53:47] and then the third thing that is really
[00:53:49] really um odd is that the ELT went off,
[00:53:54] the pinger, and that only ever usually
[00:53:57] goes off if there's a catastrophic
[00:53:59] emergency on the plane, right? it went
[00:54:02] off not at the Pentagon but at the
[00:54:03] Kentucky Ohio border,
[00:54:04] >> right, with the transponder and the the
[00:54:07] actual primary skin radar disappearing
[00:54:09] off the scope. And so, simultaneously to
[00:54:12] that, there are reports in the um you
[00:54:15] know, police reports from the area that
[00:54:18] there was a plane crash and in fact in
[00:54:20] the
[00:54:20] >> there was a plane crash where
[00:54:22] >> in the Ohio Kentucky border where all
[00:54:23] those three things happened. It was
[00:54:24] pinpointed and there was a plane crash
[00:54:26] there and the state police were rushing
[00:54:27] towards the crash and
[00:54:29] >> there were reports of that. Yeah, there
[00:54:30] are actually police reports that you can
[00:54:32] read. And then at the very same time in
[00:54:35] um the situation room, it was also
[00:54:37] reported that that Flight 77 or a plane
[00:54:41] that they thought was Flight 77 crashed
[00:54:43] at the Kentucky Ohio border. And then
[00:54:45] subsequent to that, the commission came
[00:54:46] out and said, "No, no, no, that was just
[00:54:47] false reporting." Um
[00:54:49] >> but that happens to be the last place it
[00:54:51] was seen on radar.
[00:54:52] >> Yeah. And then of course if you look at
[00:54:54] the FBI photos, there's a bunch of um
[00:54:57] you know theories out there, conspiracy
[00:54:59] theories or what have you. It doesn't
[00:55:02] look like a plane hit the Pentagon,
[00:55:04] right? Like you look at it looks like a
[00:55:05] punched hole. And uh you know, Flight 77
[00:55:09] was a rather large plane. Um there were
[00:55:11] no plane parts. There was no fuselage.
[00:55:13] The jet engines weren't on the outside
[00:55:15] of the Pentagon. And the footage shows
[00:55:17] that whatever pierced the Pentagon sort
[00:55:19] of like leaprogged and like
[00:55:22] crisscrossed, which kind of defies the
[00:55:24] rules of physics. But again, if you
[00:55:26] raise these questions, if you ask these
[00:55:28] questions, you're immediately shut down
[00:55:30] as a conspiracy theorist. But like the
[00:55:32] facts are the facts. You can look at a
[00:55:34] photo. On top of it, the Pentagon, you
[00:55:36] know, our home of our defense, um,
[00:55:40] there's no video footage of the plane
[00:55:42] except for a gas station video that has
[00:55:46] been partially released to the American
[00:55:47] public. How is that possible? Like, how
[00:55:50] is there no other footage of the plane
[00:55:53] flying into that building? It doesn't
[00:55:55] make any sense. So, why 24 years out,
[00:55:59] why don't we just get all that
[00:56:01] information? why won't it just be
[00:56:02] released to the American public to sort
[00:56:05] of shut down these theories to clarify
[00:56:08] what happened and to give you know the
[00:56:11] families an understanding of how the
[00:56:14] nation was not only attacked but how our
[00:56:16] department of defense did nothing in its
[00:56:18] own defense while under attack like I
[00:56:22] don't understand how that happened and
[00:56:23] there was no need to like really like
[00:56:27] ream some people out right like if
[00:56:30] you're the president and your Pentagon
[00:56:31] just got attacked. Like, wouldn't you be
[00:56:33] like, "Where the [ __ ] were you guys?"
[00:56:35] Like, "What happened?" Like, "Where were
[00:56:36] the air to surface missiles?"
[00:56:37] >> You're literally the Pentagon.
[00:56:38] >> Yeah. Like, you're the Pentagon. Like,
[00:56:40] >> the defense department.
[00:56:41] >> But that's what I'm saying. Like, how?
[00:56:42] And and it's not like the defense
[00:56:44] department was hit first. It was hit,
[00:56:48] you know,
[00:56:49] >> third
[00:56:50] >> an hour and 20 minutes after the first
[00:56:52] confirmed hijack of flight 11. How is
[00:56:54] that possible? And if it did happen, why
[00:56:58] didn't Heads roll? Why wasn't our entire
[00:57:01] government petrified? Here we are for
[00:57:03] years fighting the great bear Russia and
[00:57:06] they're like, you know, we've got NORAD
[00:57:08] and fighter jets and we're worried about
[00:57:09] nukes coming in. And somehow some
[00:57:13] non-English-speaking
[00:57:15] incompetent al-Qaeda operative who
[00:57:18] couldn't even fly a Cessna, let alone a
[00:57:21] jumbo jet, is able to pull off a fighter
[00:57:25] pilot maneuver and fly, I don't know, 15
[00:57:28] ft off the ground into the side of the
[00:57:29] Pentagon. But meanwhile, there's no
[00:57:31] radar track. There's no evidence of it.
[00:57:34] We're just told that that's what
[00:57:35] happened. And it's the Pentagon. Like I
[00:57:38] don't I don't understand how we were
[00:57:41] attacked at our Department of Defense
[00:57:44] and President Bush wasn't outraged, but
[00:57:46] they didn't want any investigation. And
[00:57:48] keep in mind that the joint intelligence
[00:57:51] committee that did investigate was only
[00:57:53] investigating intelligence community
[00:57:55] failures. That's the NSA, the FBI, and
[00:57:57] the CIA. They weren't investigating the
[00:57:59] failure of the Department of Defense to
[00:58:01] defend itself on the day of 9/11
[00:58:03] >> or the actual crime. I mean, just the
[00:58:06] mechanics of the crime itself as
[00:58:08] presented to us, the public,
[00:58:11] hard to understand. And I but I don't
[00:58:14] have any secret theory. I would just say
[00:58:15] it if I did. But they're telling us that
[00:58:18] these guys who were not pilots, who went
[00:58:20] to flaky flight schools in Florida or
[00:58:22] Arizona or wherever and didn't do very
[00:58:25] well, as you noted, in fact, did so
[00:58:27] badly that they alerted law local law
[00:58:29] enforcement like what is this?
[00:58:31] >> That's how bad they were. They stuck out
[00:58:33] like they were so grossly incompetent
[00:58:35] >> that like the flight school were like
[00:58:37] what is going on here?
[00:58:38] >> But they murder the pilots of these
[00:58:40] planes. This is a story and maybe it's
[00:58:42] true. I have no idea but it's it's hard
[00:58:44] to it's hard to understand it. So they
[00:58:46] murder the pilots
[00:58:48] and the planes flying in the other
[00:58:50] direction. They're not American in at
[00:58:52] least one case. They don't speak English
[00:58:54] and they somehow turn the planes around
[00:58:57] and then go to like the precise
[00:59:01] PL, you know, to the side of the
[00:59:02] Pentagon to the Twin Towers in lower
[00:59:04] Manhattan
[00:59:06] was the idea that they program that into
[00:59:07] the computer or how does that work?
[00:59:09] >> I don't know. I don't know how they even
[00:59:10] got the pilots out of their seats to
[00:59:13] take control of the plane. I you know,
[00:59:15] again, like flying it. So, in other
[00:59:17] words, a cockpit is a small place like
[00:59:19] the pilot and co-pilot are in their
[00:59:22] seats. They're flying the plane. The
[00:59:23] they the hijackers, according to the
[00:59:25] official story, burst into the cockpit.
[00:59:27] They, you know,
[00:59:30] decapitate,
[00:59:32] you know,
[00:59:33] >> that's the official story.
[00:59:34] >> The official story is that they were
[00:59:36] decapitated. And so then they had to
[00:59:38] lift those bodies out of those seats not
[00:59:39] to be macob and then jump into those
[00:59:42] seats and fly the plane. But like I
[00:59:44] don't I don't know how that works. Like
[00:59:45] I do know that at 30,000 ft there aren't
[00:59:48] street signs. So, when you take over a
[00:59:50] plane at 30,000 feet somewhere over the
[00:59:53] United States of America, I don't know
[00:59:54] how you know which way to turn. I don't
[00:59:56] know how you know where the Pentagon is.
[00:59:58] I mean, I know it looks like a Pentagon,
[01:00:00] but when you're 30,000 ft up, you know,
[01:00:02] and you're over Kentucky, like, how do
[01:00:05] you know which direction to go to find
[01:00:06] the Pentagon? Because according to the
[01:00:09] official story, the hijackers were not
[01:00:10] communicating with the ground.
[01:00:12] Typically, when planes navigate across
[01:00:14] the United States, they must communicate
[01:00:16] with the ground. you check in with
[01:00:18] different, you know, sectors and when
[01:00:21] you cross over the sector, that's how
[01:00:23] everyone knows where that particular
[01:00:24] plane is. That didn't happen on 911 when
[01:00:27] the hijackers took over and somehow the
[01:00:29] planes were able to navigate exactly to
[01:00:31] the precise target. Um, coupling that
[01:00:35] with the fact that the hijackers were
[01:00:36] just grossly incompetent. They didn't
[01:00:38] speak English. Um, and just sort of like
[01:00:42] the story itself, like I don't
[01:00:44] understand. Um, these hijackers were
[01:00:47] like little guys. How did they get the
[01:00:50] pilots and co-pilots out of the cockpit
[01:00:52] area, get in the seats, clean up all the
[01:00:54] mess from the violence, and then fly the
[01:00:57] plane? It doesn't make a lot of sense to
[01:01:00] me. Our understanding of what happened
[01:01:02] again comes from the 9/11 commission
[01:01:04] telling us what happened and comes from
[01:01:05] the cell phone calls that gave an awful
[01:01:08] lot of information about the hijackers.
[01:01:11] And again, there there's been a lot of,
[01:01:13] you know, talk about how that was
[01:01:15] possible when planes are, you know,
[01:01:17] flying at 30,000 feet. How in 2001 was
[01:01:21] there able to be a connected cell phone
[01:01:23] call? Um, more to the point when the
[01:01:26] planes are being flown sort of like
[01:01:28] haphazardly and herkyjerky. And you
[01:01:30] know, the way cell phones work is they
[01:01:32] connect from towers to the ground. Well,
[01:01:34] when a plane is moving all over the
[01:01:36] airspace and flying at maximum speed, um
[01:01:39] it's really really rare for a cell phone
[01:01:43] to connect at 5,000 ft, let alone 30,000
[01:01:46] ft. And so that raises questions. Our
[01:01:48] entire understanding of what took place
[01:01:50] on those planes literally comes from the
[01:01:52] cell phone calls. We asked the FBI about
[01:01:54] that. Um and we didn't really get any
[01:01:57] clear answers. Um and to this day, we
[01:02:00] still don't have many clear answers. But
[01:02:02] you don't have clear answers about
[01:02:04] pretty central questions.
[01:02:06] >> Exactly.
[01:02:06] >> These are not ancillary questions. These
[01:02:08] are like the most basic like how' they
[01:02:09] do that.
[01:02:10] >> I mean, you don't know.
[01:02:11] >> No, we don't know. Like my biggest
[01:02:13] questions aside from the cell phones and
[01:02:14] what have you and how the hijackers
[01:02:16] themselves were actually able to, you
[01:02:19] know, navigate from the middle of
[01:02:21] nowhere to the precise targets that they
[01:02:23] went to when they were so grossly
[01:02:24] incompetent and not speaking to the
[01:02:26] ground. My biggest question is where was
[01:02:29] our air defense? I know as a fact
[01:02:31] because I read all the rules and the
[01:02:33] procedures and protocols back in the
[01:02:34] day. Those F-16s should have been up
[01:02:37] within 5 minutes. They should have been
[01:02:39] flanking those planes and they should
[01:02:40] have stopped those planes. And at the
[01:02:42] bare minimum, they should have been
[01:02:44] communicating down to the ground, the
[01:02:45] F-16 pilots, to say, "We can't get these
[01:02:48] guys to stop, you know, and put people
[01:02:51] on alert." Right? But for some reason,
[01:02:54] three planes were allowed to be hijacked
[01:02:56] over the course of almost an hour and a
[01:02:58] half. and the United States of America
[01:03:00] did nothing to stop it. So, putting
[01:03:03] aside all the failures to prevent the
[01:03:05] attacks for the 18 months, two years
[01:03:08] before 9/11, okay, you look at the day
[01:03:11] of, and we get back to your original
[01:03:13] question, how could the devastation have
[01:03:15] been mitigated? One simple way is that
[01:03:18] if the F-16s had done their job, had
[01:03:21] done what they were trained to do, which
[01:03:23] by the way, there's also evidence that
[01:03:25] there was a drill, a military drill on
[01:03:28] the day of 9/11 about a plane being
[01:03:30] hijacked and flown into a building.
[01:03:33] Okay, these F-16 pilots are trained to
[01:03:36] do that. That was the procedure and the
[01:03:37] protocol. For some reason, on 911, it
[01:03:41] didn't happen at all.
[01:03:43] You've asked these questions, I assume,
[01:03:45] to members of Congress.
[01:03:47] >> We were told that it was the fog of war.
[01:03:51] >> That's what we were told.
[01:03:52] >> That was the answer.
[01:03:53] >> Yeah.
[01:03:55] >> Did I mean, but at some point, you know,
[01:03:57] like the rest of us were watching this
[01:03:59] on TV.
[01:04:00] So, I mean, clearly whoever's commanding
[01:04:03] those aircraft knew that this was
[01:04:04] happening also. Everyone knew. I mean, I
[01:04:07] was here. You were here,
[01:04:08] >> right?
[01:04:09] that I mean did the person who prevented
[01:04:11] those planes from taking off ever get
[01:04:13] punished? Did anyone get punished?
[01:04:14] >> No one's ever been punished. I think the
[01:04:16] commission's we like to say that the
[01:04:17] commission's finding was everyone was at
[01:04:19] fault therefore no one is at fault.
[01:04:21] >> Right. No ex
[01:04:22] >> and so [laughter]
[01:04:23] we're all guilty.
[01:04:24] >> But you know again 3,000 people were
[01:04:27] murdered and I think that my husband was
[01:04:30] one of them. And I don't understand I go
[01:04:32] back to the rule of law. We are a
[01:04:34] democracy. We are a nation founded upon
[01:04:36] the rule of law. How has our entire
[01:04:39] legal system failed the 9/11 widows and
[01:04:43] children? How has the Department of
[01:04:45] Justice failed the widows and children
[01:04:47] not only before 9/11 on 9/11 and I'll
[01:04:51] tell you something in the wake of 9/11.
[01:04:53] Because if there is one entity that has
[01:04:54] revictimized and horribly treated the
[01:04:58] 9/11 widows and children, it is our
[01:05:00] Department of Justice and they should be
[01:05:01] held accountable for what they have
[01:05:03] done.
[01:05:03] >> Interesting. That's
[01:05:06] I want to hear that story cuz I I can
[01:05:08] tell you know a lot about it and you're
[01:05:10] passionate about it. But before we get
[01:05:11] to that, just one last question about
[01:05:12] the day of about 911 in itself. What
[01:05:15] what was building seven?
[01:05:17] >> So I'm full disclosure. I have always
[01:05:20] focused my studies and research and um
[01:05:24] expertise if you want to say that on the
[01:05:26] intelligence failures. Yes, I did watch
[01:05:28] your series. Um uh I listened to it. I
[01:05:31] didn't watch it. I don't like to watch
[01:05:33] myself.
[01:05:34] >> What you mean?
[01:05:34] >> But uh and I I do know uh building 7
[01:05:40] there's a lot of talk that it doesn't
[01:05:41] make a lot of sense. Um you know, I
[01:05:45] think that there needs to be some
[01:05:46] questions to special ops as to whether
[01:05:48] or not as way of fact that any bombs
[01:05:52] were planted in the couches of that
[01:05:53] building.
[01:05:54] >> The couches.
[01:05:55] >> The couches.
[01:05:56] >> What does that mean? A couch like you
[01:05:57] sit on a couch.
[01:05:58] >> Yeah.
[01:05:59] >> Why do you say couches? I you know
[01:06:01] listen over the years we've had people
[01:06:03] that came and approached us and tried to
[01:06:04] give us information all kinds of
[01:06:06] different people. I bet
[01:06:07] >> and I think that one of the things that
[01:06:09] needs to be examined is building 7. I
[01:06:12] think that hard questions need to be
[01:06:14] asked as to how and why that building
[01:06:15] fell.
[01:06:16] >> Why do you say couches?
[01:06:17] >> I just happen to wonder if bombs were
[01:06:20] planted in the couches by special ops.
[01:06:24] >> You happen to wonder having that? That's
[01:06:27] not something you would arrive at just
[01:06:28] sort of randomly. the couches. Everyone
[01:06:30] talks about the columns and the
[01:06:31] fireproofing, but you're saying so you
[01:06:33] you obvious obviously you
[01:06:36] >> I don't know. I mean, listen, like I
[01:06:37] said, we had a lot of people approach
[01:06:38] us. We had air traffic controller people
[01:06:40] in the beginning. We had an Iranian a
[01:06:43] former Iranian uh give us information.
[01:06:46] We had able danger guys come to us. I
[01:06:48] bet you did.
[01:06:48] >> Uh we had foreign governments try to
[01:06:50] give us stuff. We had death threats. We
[01:06:52] had all kinds of stuff. Um so, you know,
[01:06:56] I'm just throwing that out. Building 7,
[01:06:57] that's what I could say. It's not my
[01:06:59] area. It's not what I focused on.
[01:07:01] >> I get it. I totally get it.
[01:07:01] >> It is a total anomaly that that
[01:07:03] happened. It doesn't make any sense to
[01:07:05] me. And what's interesting is like it's
[01:07:06] something that I had never studied
[01:07:07] before. And you know, it's true. Like
[01:07:10] it's kind of odd. And um I think that we
[01:07:13] should get some answers.
[01:07:15] >> The couches. Okay. Sorry. I'm going to
[01:07:18] >> couches.
[01:07:19] >> Yeah. No, it's just such a
[01:07:20] >> I don't know nothing.
[01:07:21] >> Yeah. No, I get it. But clearly, you
[01:07:23] know, you were a kind of clearing house
[01:07:24] for this stuff.
[01:07:26] >> Yeah. Yeah,
[01:07:26] >> just because of your role for those
[01:07:28] people who weren't around or don't
[01:07:30] remember you were
[01:07:31] >> No, I mean like one of the things that
[01:07:32] sticks out to me that we had heard one
[01:07:35] of the nicer sometimes you hear
[01:07:37] information that I believe is sort of
[01:07:38] like a limited hangout or to try to like
[01:07:41] explain the real story but like soften
[01:07:42] it. And so one of the things that we
[01:07:44] heard is like yeah we were following
[01:07:46] them but you know um you know we thought
[01:07:49] it was going to be November 9th instead
[01:07:51] of September 11th. we reverse the
[01:07:54] numbers and I was like that's
[01:07:56] interesting you know so you were
[01:07:58] following them or you weren't following
[01:08:00] them were you on the practice runs were
[01:08:01] you not on the practice runs but that
[01:08:03] was one of the stories that we had heard
[01:08:04] from like a source that like yeah like
[01:08:07] they were getting followed we were you
[01:08:09] know but we thought it was going to be
[01:08:10] 119 not 9/11 that doesn't really make a
[01:08:13] lot of sense because we had the NSA
[01:08:15] listening into the conversations between
[01:08:17] Bin Laden and the other operatives and
[01:08:19] as everybody knows now because um
[01:08:22] Senator Hatch leaked some of the
[01:08:23] information that like tomorrow is zero
[01:08:25] hour, you know, the big wedding. Uh it's
[01:08:28] two sticks and an upside down birthday
[01:08:31] cake. Um I think that there was plenty
[01:08:34] of information out there to let people
[01:08:36] know that it was actually 9/11. Um and
[01:08:38] more to the point, one thing that gets
[01:08:40] skipped over often. My understanding is
[01:08:42] that Ramsey Yousef, the 93 bomber, his
[01:08:45] the fifth anniversary of his conviction
[01:08:47] uh was September 11th, 2001. And if you
[01:08:50] know anything about al Qaeda, if you
[01:08:52] study al Qaeda, they like anniversaries.
[01:08:54] And so, um, to me, I think that for
[01:08:58] whatever reason, the attacks weren't
[01:08:59] stopped. The American public wasn't
[01:09:01] properly notified or warned. Certainly,
[01:09:04] there were people inside the government
[01:09:05] that were probably given warnings. I
[01:09:07] think there's evidence of that.
[01:09:08] >> Um, I just wish that,
[01:09:10] >> yeah, I just wish that
[01:09:13] >> my family had known because when my
[01:09:14] husband called me, I would have been
[01:09:16] like, "Holy [ __ ] this get the [ __ ] out.
[01:09:18] Like, get out. this is not a bad pilot
[01:09:20] as the president said. Um this is it
[01:09:23] like get out of that building you know
[01:09:25] um it was already a target. The people
[01:09:27] that worked in that building um knew it
[01:09:30] was a target. I think it's interesting
[01:09:32] that the women many of the women that
[01:09:34] worked in my husband's firm survived. Um
[01:09:36] and I I you know point to women's
[01:09:39] intuition. The women were just like I'm
[01:09:41] getting the [ __ ] out of here.
[01:09:42] >> And they survived and my husband didn't.
[01:09:45] And I feel like if the public was made
[01:09:47] more aware um over the summer that, you
[01:09:50] know, Director Tennant's hair was on
[01:09:52] fire and that we were in the crosshairs
[01:09:54] and that there was an impending attack
[01:09:56] because we had warnings from Germany,
[01:09:59] Russia, Israel, Jordan, our own intel
[01:10:03] communities surveillance of these cells,
[01:10:05] I think many, many more lives would have
[01:10:07] been saved. I think frankly the attacks
[01:10:09] would have been 100% prevented.
[01:10:13] >> Yeah. So, I think it's entirely fair to
[01:10:15] ask since they weren't prevented and
[01:10:18] since they've been covered up with
[01:10:21] maximum aggression for 25 years, they're
[01:10:24] still being covered up.
[01:10:25] >> Systemic cover up.
[01:10:26] >> Systemic cover up. That's correct. Very
[01:10:29] extensive cover up. Um, I mean, that's
[01:10:31] not a gap.
[01:10:32] >> So big. I I think the cover up is so big
[01:10:34] that like you couldn't even hold
[01:10:35] accountable the people that have covered
[01:10:37] it up. And honestly, the other limited
[01:10:39] hangout answer to that would be like,
[01:10:41] well, we were told that we couldn't tell
[01:10:42] you the truth because it was a matter of
[01:10:44] national security
[01:10:45] >> always.
[01:10:46] >> And isn't that convenient?
[01:10:48] >> Well, sure, but I mean, this was the,
[01:10:49] you know, greatest violation of national
[01:10:51] security in my lifetime. So, it doesn't
[01:10:52] really make sense as an argument, but
[01:10:54] because
[01:10:56] of national security, like the
[01:10:57] Department of Defense an hour and a half
[01:10:59] later gets attacked and no heads roll.
[01:11:02] Does that make any sense to you?
[01:11:03] >> No.
[01:11:04] So, I I think it's totally fair to ask
[01:11:06] who benefited from it at that point. I
[01:11:08] think it's totally fair. Um, in fact, I
[01:11:11] think it it's mandatory to ask that
[01:11:12] question. Um, and there should be
[01:11:15] prosecutions
[01:11:16] >> 100%.
[01:11:17] >> How would you You're a lawyer. How would
[01:11:18] you do how would you structure the
[01:11:20] response now?
[01:11:21] >> Yeah. I mean, I love that you want the
[01:11:23] commission. I think that
[01:11:24] >> I don't know if that's the right answer.
[01:11:24] I just want people I want to know the
[01:11:26] truth.
[01:11:26] >> Yeah. And I think that that's a truth
[01:11:28] commission is is a great idea. I think
[01:11:31] that I would like it tweaked a little
[01:11:33] bit. I'd like, you know, a special
[01:11:35] prosecutor
[01:11:36] um with a full-time, fully impanled
[01:11:39] grand jury ready to issue indictments.
[01:11:42] Um I'd like, you know, the offer of
[01:11:44] immunity to anyone. Immunity and
[01:11:46] anonymity for anyone who comes forward
[01:11:48] with information. Um on, you know, the
[01:11:52] failures and the dayto-day of like what
[01:11:55] happened. Um and I think people should
[01:11:57] go to jail and I think people that
[01:11:59] covered it up should be held
[01:12:00] accountable. Um, and I think the
[01:12:02] families deserve answers and I
[01:12:05] >> who wouldn't want that? I mean, I think
[01:12:07] if if if Donald Trump announced what you
[01:12:09] just said tomorrow, I'm just imagining
[01:12:12] this scene on X on social media. Like,
[01:12:16] >> who would be opposed to that, do you
[01:12:17] think?
[01:12:18] >> Right.
[01:12:18] >> I know exactly who would be opposed to
[01:12:20] that. I know exactly which commentators
[01:12:23] would have a fit, right,
[01:12:24] >> if he did that. And so, what does that
[01:12:26] tell you? But then explain to me how uh
[01:12:29] President Trump put together a joint
[01:12:31] terrorism task force for the October 7th
[01:12:34] victims. He put together Pam Bondi led
[01:12:36] it. You know, a task force to find
[01:12:39] everyone who was responsible for October
[01:12:41] 7th. And yet he ran on America First and
[01:12:44] I was like, wait, I'm sorry. Could we
[01:12:45] get a 9/11 task force? It's going to be
[01:12:47] the 25th year. For the 25th year, could
[01:12:49] you appoint a 9/11 task force? We have
[01:12:52] Doge. How about DOEA? Right. How about
[01:12:54] the Department of Government
[01:12:55] Accountability? And why don't you put
[01:12:57] that together and have the Doge guys get
[01:13:00] the access to the information, throw it
[01:13:03] into AI, whatever they do, and figure
[01:13:06] out who's responsible and what really
[01:13:08] happened.
[01:13:08] >> You know, exactly what would happen.
[01:13:10] >> What?
[01:13:11] >> Yeah. Okay. So, um I mean there would be
[01:13:14] a lot of
[01:13:16] people would have to answer really hard
[01:13:17] questions and and I don't you know I
[01:13:20] don't
[01:13:20] >> but I think that the American public is
[01:13:22] owed that this kid.
[01:13:24] >> Yes.
[01:13:25] >> And you know 3,000 people were massacred
[01:13:28] and the families are owed the truth and
[01:13:30] the families are owed, you know, proper
[01:13:33] compensation for our losses. We have not
[01:13:36] been properly taken care of. We were
[01:13:37] railroaded.
[01:13:39] >> How's that? Okay. Okay, so now I want to
[01:13:40] get into the DOJ,
[01:13:42] >> but thank you for indulging my all my
[01:13:43] many questions. I still want to ask you
[01:13:45] off camera about the couches. What the
[01:13:46] hell does that mean?
[01:13:48] >> Sorry, I'm not going to push it.
[01:13:49] >> I don't know.
[01:13:49] >> Yeah. Well, it means something clearly.
[01:13:51] Um,
[01:13:53] okay. You've had problems with the DOJ.
[01:13:55] Our DOJ
[01:13:56] >> I want to just say this. Anyone who
[01:13:57] knows anything about the couches in
[01:13:59] building 7 and the planning of
[01:14:01] explosives should get immediate immunity
[01:14:03] and anonymity if they come forward with
[01:14:05] the information.
[01:14:06] >> Of course.
[01:14:08] Of course, this is all
[01:14:12] >> and if there is no one, then no one gets
[01:14:14] immunity.
[01:14:15] >> Not a problem,
[01:14:16] >> right?
[01:14:16] >> What I never understood like what's the
[01:14:18] problem with finding out what the truth
[01:14:20] is about anything? I don't I don't
[01:14:22] understand. And there is a certain
[01:14:24] persistent chorus of the same people,
[01:14:26] hysterical people telling you that
[01:14:29] you're not allowed to ask this or talk
[01:14:31] about that. And it's like, why are you
[01:14:32] saying that? I mean, I look, I
[01:14:34] understand. I'm not for, you know,
[01:14:37] hounding people, attacking them. I don't
[01:14:39] think you should slander people. These
[01:14:40] are the slanderers, by the way, who are
[01:14:41] insistent, by the way, that you not ask
[01:14:43] questions. But whatever. I get it. Don't
[01:14:44] be impolite. Don't make a scene for no
[01:14:47] reason.
[01:14:48] >> But I I
[01:14:48] >> But in this case, 3,000 people are dead.
[01:14:51] It's totally fair. That's what I was
[01:14:53] saying. The truth is really important
[01:14:54] everywhere all the time. Um but when
[01:14:57] 3,000 people are murdered,
[01:14:59] >> Yeah.
[01:15:00] >> we're owed an investigation. We're
[01:15:03] [laughter] owed.
[01:15:03] >> Oh, you radical.
[01:15:05] >> No, right. I mean, we're owe Where is
[01:15:07] the justice system?
[01:15:08] >> Oh, I agree.
[01:15:09] >> And it's unbelievable the stories that I
[01:15:11] could tell you about how we've been
[01:15:13] treated by our own Department of
[01:15:15] Justice.
[01:15:16] >> Okay.
[01:15:17] >> Would you know
[01:15:18] >> then I want you to tell me those stories
[01:15:20] and let's take a quick break right now
[01:15:21] midway. So, we're back. We took a quick
[01:15:23] break. I should say it's the last day of
[01:15:25] October and uh we're in a northern
[01:15:27] climate and it's freezing. So, I went
[01:15:28] and put my highly unattractive vest on.
[01:15:30] That explains the costume change.
[01:15:32] Anyway, you were on the cusp of
[01:15:34] explaining
[01:15:36] your
[01:15:37] what you described as mistreatment by
[01:15:39] the Department of Justice and related
[01:15:40] agencies and law firms. Can I just give
[01:15:43] you the two sentence understanding that
[01:15:45] I have? So, the United States has set
[01:15:47] aside a huge amount of taxpayer money to
[01:15:49] compensate the victims of terror, all
[01:15:52] terror attacks. 911 being of course the
[01:15:53] biggest and most famous of all terror
[01:15:55] attacks in American history. So, I'm a
[01:15:57] little surprised and I think that's
[01:15:59] true. Correct. There's a big pile of
[01:16:01] money, taxpayer money,
[01:16:03] >> but you said the victims of 9/11, the
[01:16:06] spouses, surviving children have been
[01:16:08] undercompensated. Like tell I'll start
[01:16:11] let you go from there.
[01:16:12] >> Right. So in 2015 um certain members of
[01:16:16] Congress put together some legislation
[01:16:19] um and created a fund run by the
[01:16:22] Department of Justice and the fund was
[01:16:24] supposed to be funded through terrorist
[01:16:26] sanctions um predominantly from those
[01:16:29] who do business with Iran. Let's say uh
[01:16:32] Bank Pariba uh was the first deposit
[01:16:35] that went into the fund. That's a whole
[01:16:37] another story in itself. Um, it's kind
[01:16:39] of interesting, but uh, suffice it to
[01:16:42] say, out of a $9 billion fine with Bank
[01:16:45] Paraba, I think $1.8 billion went to the
[01:16:48] victims, and the residual money went to
[01:16:50] the state of New York to build a bridge
[01:16:53] that ultimately got named after uh, the
[01:16:55] governor's father. Um,
[01:16:57] >> actually,
[01:16:58] >> actually,
[01:17:00] um, I don't know what the Tapenzee
[01:17:02] Bridge had to do with terrorism, but I
[01:17:04] think
[01:17:04] >> Was it ever bombed by Iran? I don't
[01:17:06] think so. But I do like to make the
[01:17:08] joke, my daughter went to college in
[01:17:11] upstate New York, and when I would go
[01:17:12] over the bridge and uh pay the toll, I'd
[01:17:15] be joking that it should be going to the
[01:17:16] 9/11 widows and children since the money
[01:17:18] that went towards the bridge uh
[01:17:21] reconstruction came from the Parry Bomb
[01:17:23] money, as I understand it, from
[01:17:24] reporting instead of going to victims of
[01:17:26] terrorism.
[01:17:27] >> How can that be?
[01:17:28] >> Um well, you know, the Department of
[01:17:30] Justice um runs a lot of their sanctions
[01:17:34] programs. sort of like a slush fund. But
[01:17:36] at any rate, this fund was created. Bank
[01:17:38] Parib put together like I think 1.8 or
[01:17:40] 1.9 billion of the first deposit into
[01:17:43] that fund. Um the widows and children
[01:17:45] were excluded from joining that fund and
[01:17:48] being compensated even though um we were
[01:17:52] given the right to sue the
[01:17:53] co-conspirators of the hijackers. Uh
[01:17:56] when we were forced into the victim's
[01:17:58] compensation fund back in 2002 when the
[01:18:00] government took away our right to sue,
[01:18:02] we were allowed to sue the terrorists.
[01:18:04] the co-conspirators of the hijackers.
[01:18:06] And um we did we we were able to get a
[01:18:09] default judgment, sorry, against Iran um
[01:18:12] and the widows and kids have Iran
[01:18:14] judgments. Um and we sought to be
[01:18:17] compensated for those judgments because
[01:18:19] it was the only way that we could
[01:18:20] >> Iran judgments.
[01:18:22] >> Iran judgments. I know not a lot of
[01:18:23] people know that we have Iran judgments,
[01:18:25] but
[01:18:26] >> may I just ask a dumb question? What
[01:18:27] does Iran have to do with 9/11?
[01:18:29] >> Right. So, the evidence um that was
[01:18:31] presented to the court uh for Iran's
[01:18:34] role in the 9/11 attacks is that Iran
[01:18:37] cleansed some of the passports of a few
[01:18:40] of the hijackers when they um went
[01:18:43] through Iran after being in Afghanistan.
[01:18:46] That evidence was used. Uh Iran doesn't
[01:18:50] show up in court in the United States.
[01:18:52] So, um, I think at this point probably
[01:18:55] close to 20,000 9/11 victims have been
[01:18:58] given copycat judgments off that basic
[01:19:02] evidence that Iran cleansed these
[01:19:04] passports. And this is the only way that
[01:19:06] the widows and children of the 3,000
[01:19:08] killed are in any way able to hold
[01:19:11] terrorists quote unquote accountable. We
[01:19:13] are supposed to be able to get
[01:19:14] compensated for our Iran judgments in
[01:19:18] this government fund. Okay? A Department
[01:19:20] of Justice fund. But just big picture,
[01:19:22] not to be orary about it, but like
[01:19:25] everything we've talked about for the
[01:19:27] last hour was about the event itself and
[01:19:30] how it happened and what we don't know
[01:19:31] and who might have benefited from it and
[01:19:33] who might have paid for it and
[01:19:34] facilitated it. Iran didn't make an
[01:19:36] appearance in that conversation. And
[01:19:37] I've never heard anybody make a case
[01:19:40] that Iran was actually behind 9/11 in a
[01:19:42] meaningful way.
[01:19:43] >> Um, I would agree with that, but
[01:19:45] nevertheless, Iran doesn't show up in
[01:19:47] court and you can get a default judgment
[01:19:49] and that's
[01:19:50] >> it. Seems like a lot of tragedies in
[01:19:53] this country are blamed on Iran. I'm not
[01:19:56] working for Iran. I'm not that
[01:19:57] sympathetic to Iran. I'm not Iranian,
[01:20:00] but I just noticed this that Trump gets
[01:20:03] shot in Butler, it was Iran. Right.
[01:20:04] >> Right. It's always Iran. And it does
[01:20:06] feel like
[01:20:07] >> a convenient narrative.
[01:20:09] >> Yes. Yes. Okay. I just want to say that.
[01:20:11] >> Well, listen, you know, pragmatically
[01:20:13] speaking, when you're a widow and it's
[01:20:15] the only judgment you can get,
[01:20:17] >> I get it. I get it. No. Um,
[01:20:18] >> but that's not a decision you made
[01:20:19] anyway, right? I mean, you didn't decide
[01:20:21] to go after Iran.
[01:20:22] >> No, not at all. I wanted to go after the
[01:20:24] US government and their failures because
[01:20:26] I didn't look to Iran or Saudi Arabia or
[01:20:29] any other foreign government to protect
[01:20:32] my husband and my family on the morning
[01:20:33] of September 11th.
[01:20:35] >> I looked to the United States government
[01:20:36] cuz I'm an American citizen and the
[01:20:38] attacks happened here. So, at any rate,
[01:20:40] we were able to get these Iran
[01:20:42] judgments. I think at this point like
[01:20:44] 20,000 people um you know that's
[01:20:47] including the deedants families, the
[01:20:49] widows and the kids and the deedants
[01:20:52] siblings, parents um and then all of the
[01:20:55] inhalation injury people at ground zero
[01:20:57] who breathed the bad air. They're also
[01:21:00] holding Iran accountable. Um that
[01:21:02] ultimately will be about 70,000 um
[01:21:05] people seeking to be compensated in this
[01:21:07] government fund. Well, the problem with
[01:21:09] the government fund is that um
[01:21:12] compensating 9/11 victims gets in the
[01:21:15] way of the other victims that want to be
[01:21:18] compensated. And so back in 2008 and
[01:21:22] then a little bit before that in some
[01:21:24] other legislation, um things were
[01:21:26] rewritten for American military to be
[01:21:29] able to sue the enemy. So uh you have
[01:21:33] victims from the embassy bombings in the
[01:21:36] late 80s. You have Iran hostages that
[01:21:39] aren't allowed to have judgments because
[01:21:41] a part of the uh Algeria Accords was
[01:21:42] that they weren't allowed to sue Iran,
[01:21:44] but they're given just a flat number
[01:21:46] that they're allowed to be paid in this
[01:21:48] government fund. They're a victim of
[01:21:49] state sponsored terrorism, the Iran
[01:21:51] hostages. Um the embassy bombing in
[01:21:54] Beirut victims and then the Kobar tower
[01:21:58] victims. Uh that was a bombing in Saudi
[01:22:01] Arabia. And then you have the US's coal
[01:22:04] families, also victims of state
[01:22:05] sponsored terrorism, and the East
[01:22:07] African embassy bombing families. These
[01:22:09] are all military um or foreign service
[01:22:12] families that because the law was
[01:22:15] rewritten, they are allowed to get
[01:22:16] judgments against Iran for Iran's
[01:22:19] participation in those attacks. And so
[01:22:22] those victims have really powerful
[01:22:24] lawyers. They were the ones that
[01:22:25] reportedly created this government fund
[01:22:27] that's run by the Department of Justice.
[01:22:29] and they came up with the idea that
[01:22:31] we're going to fund the fund from
[01:22:33] terrorist sanctions. And what does that
[01:22:35] mean? Well, that means that when the US
[01:22:37] government gets information that a
[01:22:39] company, a ship, you know, a tanker is
[01:22:42] doing business and buying Iranian oil,
[01:22:45] um, that tanker or that company gets
[01:22:48] sanctioned. The Department of Justice
[01:22:50] goes after those entities and they find
[01:22:53] them. you know, first they have a case
[01:22:55] and then they, you know, usually
[01:22:56] typically settle the case for billions
[01:22:58] of dollars. Um, and that some of that
[01:23:01] money is supposed to go into this fund
[01:23:03] to pay victims.
[01:23:04] >> This is why we never pull back sanctions
[01:23:05] even when they're counterproductive, cuz
[01:23:07] it's a scam that people are getting rich
[01:23:09] from.
[01:23:09] >> Well, right, but so it was designed
[01:23:12] Sorry, I had to say that.
[01:23:13] >> Well, so upfront it's being sold as a a
[01:23:16] fund to pay victims. Turns out many of
[01:23:18] the military families had attorneys who
[01:23:21] encouraged the families to sell their
[01:23:23] judgments to third party investors,
[01:23:25] hedge funds. Um, I know all of this
[01:23:28] because
[01:23:28] >> what
[01:23:29] >> right? I know all of this because the
[01:23:31] SEC happened to investigate one of the
[01:23:33] hedge funds and so I read all of the SEC
[01:23:36] files, thousands of pages. Um, and so
[01:23:39] that's how I know this information. I'm
[01:23:41] basing it all on these SEC files of this
[01:23:43] investigation. So at any point these
[01:23:45] victims that were supposed to be the
[01:23:47] ones getting compensated in this fund
[01:23:48] run by the Department of Justice um sold
[01:23:51] their judgments, not all of them, but a
[01:23:54] like a lot of them, they're very
[01:23:55] unsophisticated military families. This,
[01:23:57] you know, hedge fund guy comes in and
[01:23:59] says, "Listen, you got a judgment for 2
[01:24:01] million. I'll give you 400,000 right
[01:24:03] now. They're sitting at the kitchen
[01:24:04] table in the middle of Iowa. I'll write
[01:24:06] you a check." So these families sell the
[01:24:08] judgments cuz they're like, first of
[01:24:09] all, their young son or daughter was in
[01:24:12] the military. They never thought that
[01:24:14] they could sue the enemy, right? Because
[01:24:16] you're not supposed to be able to do
[01:24:17] that if you serve in the military. You
[01:24:19] don't sue the enemy. But the special law
[01:24:21] was written. And so they were just happy
[01:24:23] to get the 400,000, right? Like they're
[01:24:25] sort of astounded. So they they take the
[01:24:28] money. The hedge fund then owns the
[01:24:30] right to compensation of the judgment.
[01:24:31] >> No way. So it's like a payday loan.
[01:24:34] We'll give you a portion of your check.
[01:24:35] Yeah.
[01:24:36] >> Exactly. and they in my opinion in my
[01:24:38] opinion took advantage of the military
[01:24:40] families which I think is disgusting.
[01:24:43] Okay, but these arrangements according
[01:24:45] to the SEC documents were put together
[01:24:48] by the lawyers of the people. So the
[01:24:50] lawyers brought in the hedge funds.
[01:24:52] Okay. And so the same lawyers create
[01:24:55] reportedly from what I can understand in
[01:24:57] my opinion I'm being very careful
[01:24:59] created this fund to be run by the
[01:25:01] Department of Justice who you know
[01:25:02] treats their you know fines and
[01:25:05] sanctions and prosecutions sort of like
[01:25:06] as a slush fund. Um you know the
[01:25:09] department of justice wields power when
[01:25:10] they send money to local districts to
[01:25:12] police departments to buy vests what
[01:25:14] have you. They wield a lot of power that
[01:25:16] way. It's frankly how the money ended
[01:25:17] up, you know, at the Tapenzy Bridge
[01:25:19] cutting deals with, you know, the
[01:25:22] governor at the time. Nevertheless,
[01:25:25] these hedge funds buy the rights to the
[01:25:27] compensation and they're actually the
[01:25:28] ones in this fund getting paid.
[01:25:31] Initially, the widows and children from
[01:25:33] 9/11 weren't allowed in the fund.
[01:25:35] >> This is such a perfect metaphor for
[01:25:36] modern America. There's a victims of
[01:25:38] terrorism fund, but the actual
[01:25:40] beneficiaries are, wait for it, hedge
[01:25:42] funds.
[01:25:42] >> Right. Exactly. And can you guess what
[01:25:45] senator wrote the legislation to put
[01:25:46] this together?
[01:25:47] >> I can't imagine.
[01:25:48] >> Well, which senator from the state of
[01:25:49] New Jersey is in prison right now?
[01:25:50] >> I would say Mr. Robert Menendez.
[01:25:52] >> That is correct. Senator Mendez was the
[01:25:54] person who just, ironically enough,
[01:25:56] happened to write a lot of pieces of
[01:25:58] legislation that, you know, maximized
[01:26:00] the profits to the offshore hedge funds
[01:26:02] that had purchased these judgments from
[01:26:05] >> Are they offshore hedge funds?
[01:26:06] >> Oh, yeah. They're in the Cayman Islands.
[01:26:08] Oh,
[01:26:08] >> come on.
[01:26:10] >> Well, it's true. And so what gets really
[01:26:13] bad is that the widows and kids aren't
[01:26:16] allowed into the fund because quote
[01:26:17] unquote there's just too many of you and
[01:26:19] that you'll take all the money, right?
[01:26:21] >> And the hedge funds won't be enough for
[01:26:22] the hedge funds. Well, the problem is in
[01:26:25] the actual purchase agreements, again,
[01:26:26] according to the SEC documents, the
[01:26:28] underlying purchase agreements of the
[01:26:30] Iranian judgments of these military
[01:26:32] families, um the second line of
[01:26:34] collateral security guaranteeing the
[01:26:35] rate of return between 13 and I think
[01:26:37] 62%.
[01:26:39] is um this fund that was created by the
[01:26:43] department of justice
[01:26:44] >> guaranteeing the profits to the hedge
[01:26:46] funds was the second it
[01:26:48] >> fund is a guarant fund yes the third
[01:26:52] line of collateral security according to
[01:26:54] the SEC documents is the law firm's
[01:26:56] receivables so that means if the fund
[01:26:59] doesn't churn and burn and provide that
[01:27:01] profit then the lawyer's receivables get
[01:27:04] rated so that the hedge fund investors
[01:27:06] make the return so you can see there
[01:27:08] that there's an impetus, a drive for the
[01:27:11] attorneys not to want that third line to
[01:27:14] get tapped. They want the money to come
[01:27:16] from the fund because then it's not
[01:27:17] coming out of the attorney's pocket.
[01:27:19] Right? So that's why the widows and kids
[01:27:22] in my opinion were not allowed to go
[01:27:24] into this fund and be compensated for
[01:27:26] our Iran judgments even though we are
[01:27:28] the nation's largest group of victims of
[01:27:30] terrorism. The 911 widows and kids were
[01:27:32] blocked in this fund. We're not allowed
[01:27:34] in. Takes us three years to get the
[01:27:37] widows and kids in. we get into the fund
[01:27:39] and the law is written by Senator Mendez
[01:27:42] with the support of Senator Schumer and
[01:27:43] others so that the money is split in a
[01:27:47] way that continues to maximize the
[01:27:49] profits to the hedge fund. Okay. Then
[01:27:53] two years later because the widows and
[01:27:56] kids were wrongfully excluded from being
[01:27:58] compensated in this fund in 2015,
[01:28:01] we were owed a catch-up payment. I came
[01:28:04] up with the name. It was a lump sum
[01:28:05] catch-up payment. like you wrongfully
[01:28:07] excluded us. This was really wrong.
[01:28:09] We're owed back compensation. Okay. We
[01:28:12] go. Takes us two years to get that
[01:28:14] through Congress. Okay. We get there. We
[01:28:17] get almost a unanimous vote in the
[01:28:19] House. It goes over to the Senate and
[01:28:21] the bill gets hijacked. And I use that
[01:28:23] word purposely. It got hijacked. It got
[01:28:25] hijacked by that same group of lawyers
[01:28:28] and plaintiffs who had sold their
[01:28:30] judgments to the hedge fund. And out of
[01:28:32] nowhere, totally unwarranted, they asked
[01:28:36] to get this lump sum payment for
[01:28:40] themselves, even though they were never
[01:28:42] wrongfully excluded from the fund. They
[01:28:43] were never owed back payments from the
[01:28:45] fund, they were allowed to get what's
[01:28:47] called the Bayroot Cobbar catch-up
[01:28:48] payment worth $3 billion. The $3 billion
[01:28:52] to pay ultimately, in my opinion, some
[01:28:55] of these hedge funds in the Cayman
[01:28:57] Islands and also some victims too that
[01:28:59] didn't sell their judgments, right?
[01:29:01] um comes from US taxpayer dollars,
[01:29:04] >> $3 billion.
[01:29:05] >> Come on.
[01:29:06] >> So, it gets worse.
[01:29:07] >> And so, you believe that some of that
[01:29:09] money actually went to hedge funds in
[01:29:10] the Cayman Islands?
[01:29:11] >> I believe that it's definitely possible
[01:29:12] because the SEC documents talk about
[01:29:14] these this particular group of victims
[01:29:17] getting, you know, approached to sell
[01:29:19] their judgments. The SEC talks about the
[01:29:21] contractual agreements of the sale of
[01:29:23] the judgments. Um, and when you look at
[01:29:26] the numbers sometimes, like I'm really
[01:29:28] good at like seeing patterns and then
[01:29:30] like looking at evidence and then
[01:29:31] undoing it and like going back and
[01:29:33] trying to figure out things. It just so
[01:29:36] happens that the groups that are
[01:29:37] mentioned in the SEC documents um happen
[01:29:40] to be the highest paid groups of victims
[01:29:42] of terrorism, which first off makes no
[01:29:44] sense because they're military and
[01:29:46] military live on kind of like humble
[01:29:48] economic dam like their economic damages
[01:29:51] are very small as compared to civilians
[01:29:53] who were working on Wall Street on
[01:29:54] >> 91 because damages are calculated on the
[01:29:57] basis of incoming economic losses,
[01:29:59] right? Loss wages. And so, oddly enough,
[01:30:02] these military as compared to the 9/11
[01:30:06] civilian widows and children killed on
[01:30:08] US shores, okay, not serving overseas,
[01:30:11] not in hostile territory, civilians
[01:30:14] killed in America at work, innocent
[01:30:16] civilians, have received less
[01:30:18] compensation in this fund than these
[01:30:20] groups who just happen to also have this
[01:30:22] exposure to these third party investors
[01:30:24] and hedge funds. Okay? So the
[01:30:27] legislation gets written. They're given
[01:30:29] $3 billion of US taxpayer money to pay
[01:30:32] this payment that's totally unwarranted.
[01:30:34] Came out of nowhere, was not justified.
[01:30:36] Senator Mendez wrote the legislation,
[01:30:38] wrote a loophole in the legislation
[01:30:40] saying that quote, "Successors in
[01:30:43] interest thereof can be compensated this
[01:30:46] money from the US taxpayers. I believe
[01:30:48] the successors and interest thereof are
[01:30:50] the third party investors/hedge funds."
[01:30:52] >> Can you imagine investing in a victims
[01:30:54] of terrorism? Disgusting.
[01:30:56] >> Well, it's Do you have any idea?
[01:30:57] >> You're literally profiting from murder
[01:30:59] and terrorism and you're using a
[01:31:01] Department of Justice government fund
[01:31:03] that is being buil and sold to members
[01:31:06] of Congress as a victim's fund to
[01:31:09] compensate victims of terrorism with
[01:31:11] restitution. Okay? And it's being, you
[01:31:15] know, exploited and it's being used as
[01:31:18] like a profit model, an investment
[01:31:20] vehicle for third party investors and
[01:31:23] hedge funds. It's Do we have any idea
[01:31:26] the identity of these hedge fund
[01:31:28] managers or investors?
[01:31:30] >> No.
[01:31:32] No. But I will tell you this. I was able
[01:31:35] to read in the SEC documents some of the
[01:31:37] investor groups that were approached by
[01:31:39] the hedge fund guy from New Jersey. Um,
[01:31:42] and I cross referenced those with open
[01:31:45] secrets and donations, contributions to
[01:31:47] members of Congress. And I believe there
[01:31:49] is a pattern there, which is why we as
[01:31:51] >> Mendez do in that group. Um, let me tell
[01:31:54] you this that in the SEC documents,
[01:31:56] there's a deposition of one of the
[01:31:58] attorneys and there's a series of
[01:32:00] depositions and the initials RM um are
[01:32:03] in the documents and Senator Mendez
[01:32:06] passed legislation in 2012 that was also
[01:32:09] signed off on by President Obama to make
[01:32:12] the first round of payments to this
[01:32:14] group that had sold their judgments,
[01:32:16] many of whom had sold their judgments to
[01:32:17] the hedge funds. So, Senator Menendez's
[01:32:19] hands are all over this. You know, we
[01:32:20] turned to Congress. We said, "Could you
[01:32:22] just investigate? Could you investigate
[01:32:24] the anti-terrorism legislation done by
[01:32:26] Senator Mendez?" He's in jail now. Like,
[01:32:29] it deserves a lookie. Um, no one would
[01:32:32] do it. This fund that's had $9 billion,
[01:32:35] approximately $9 billion flown through
[01:32:37] it since 2016 has never had one hearing.
[01:32:41] We have asked repeatedly, very loudly,
[01:32:44] for hearings. We've begged for hearings.
[01:32:46] We can't get hearings on this. Um, with
[01:32:49] all of this information, we met with the
[01:32:51] chief of the money laundering asset
[01:32:54] recovery section at the the Department
[01:32:56] of Justice, the person who's in charge
[01:32:57] really ultimately over this fund. And
[01:33:00] we're having this meeting and we're
[01:33:01] like, it's really unfair. The governing
[01:33:03] statute says that we're supposed to be
[01:33:05] treated fairly and equitably. It's a
[01:33:08] United States victims of terrorism fund.
[01:33:11] Um, in the United States of America,
[01:33:13] everyone's supposed to be treated
[01:33:14] equally. Is there a reason why 9/11
[01:33:17] widows and children, this nation's
[01:33:18] largest group of victims of terrorism,
[01:33:21] are receiving anywhere from 6 to 66
[01:33:24] times less percentage value for our
[01:33:27] judgments? Is there a reason for that?
[01:33:30] And she just was like, well, you know,
[01:33:32] there's, you know, we don't really have
[01:33:33] and Congress tells us and this and that.
[01:33:35] Went to Senator Schumer, spoke to his
[01:33:37] council. She just said, well, there's
[01:33:39] just too many of you to treat you
[01:33:40] fairly. There's too many of you to have
[01:33:43] equal justice. You know the words on the
[01:33:45] Supreme Court when you walk in the door
[01:33:46] is equal justice under the law for all.
[01:33:49] >> Why not take it out of our foreign aid
[01:33:51] budget?
[01:33:52] >> Well, um that's a good question. I will
[01:33:56] tell you this that some victims of
[01:33:58] terrorism in 2020 were paid out of um
[01:34:01] the State Department's defense special
[01:34:04] budget. Um and maybe or maybe not, those
[01:34:07] guys had some third party investors that
[01:34:09] ultimately got that money.
[01:34:10] >> Who were they and why were they paid by
[01:34:12] the state department? does the East
[01:34:13] African embassy bombing victims and the
[01:34:15] USS Cole victims. Same group of lawyers
[01:34:17] represent. There's like a
[01:34:18] cross-pollination of the lawyers. It's
[01:34:20] like a little cabal of lawyers that work
[01:34:22] for these victims groups. They're also
[01:34:24] the same group of lawyers. So, they not
[01:34:25] only created this fund, they've also
[01:34:27] really played a very strong hand in
[01:34:29] rewriting anti-terrorism laws in the
[01:34:31] United States from 1990 on forward. And
[01:34:35] ironically, all of these laws are always
[01:34:37] buil after 911 as 9/11, you know, for
[01:34:40] the 911 families. But what's weird is
[01:34:42] that the 9/11 families never benefit or
[01:34:45] get anything out of these laws. In fact,
[01:34:46] we get revictimized. Um, it's kind of
[01:34:50] incredible.
[01:34:51] >> Wait, so
[01:34:52] >> let me just say this. So, we met with
[01:34:54] DOJ and we really thought maybe maybe
[01:34:57] you know this chief
[01:34:59] uh person of this department doesn't
[01:35:01] know about these hedge funds. Like, we
[01:35:03] need to alert her, right? Like, we need
[01:35:04] to tell her. And um she just got really
[01:35:07] funny at the end of the meeting. We were
[01:35:08] like, well, we wanted to talk to you
[01:35:09] about the hedge funds because the
[01:35:11] statute says that you need to be a
[01:35:13] natural person to be compensated in the
[01:35:15] fund. And even though Senator Menendez
[01:35:17] passed legislation that allows
[01:35:19] successors and interests thereof to get
[01:35:21] compensated, we think it's kind of
[01:35:23] unseammly. And you know, we're not being
[01:35:25] treated fairly and we shouldn't be
[01:35:27] penalized because there's so many of us.
[01:35:29] Like that was one of my talking points.
[01:35:30] I was like, as someone who fought for
[01:35:32] the 9/11 commission, it's not our fault
[01:35:34] that there's so many of us. It's the
[01:35:36] United States government's fault because
[01:35:38] the United States government didn't
[01:35:39] prevent the attacks and didn't mitigate
[01:35:41] any of the damage on the day of 911. So,
[01:35:44] you're punishing us for our government's
[01:35:46] failure and there being 3,000 victims.
[01:35:49] That's why we can't be compensated
[01:35:51] fairly and in alignment with the law and
[01:35:53] with all of these other victims. You
[01:35:55] can't treat us fairly because there's
[01:35:57] just too many of us. And so, we say this
[01:35:59] to this chief of Mlars and um she just
[01:36:03] got funny. She's like, "Well, no one
[01:36:04] briefed me that you were going to bring
[01:36:05] up the hedge funds. I'm not prepared to
[01:36:07] discuss it." And that was the end of
[01:36:09] that. And so, I just think that the
[01:36:12] American public should know that this is
[01:36:13] the kind of stuff that goes on. And I'd
[01:36:15] really like to know why. Um, you know,
[01:36:19] one of the laws that's currently they're
[01:36:21] trying to get passed right now is backed
[01:36:24] by the ADL. It was written by the ADL
[01:36:26] reportedly.
[01:36:27] >> The ADL.
[01:36:28] >> The ADL.
[01:36:29] >> What do they have to do with this?
[01:36:30] >> That's what I want to know. I want to
[01:36:31] know why the ADL is involving itself um
[01:36:35] in anti-terrorism laws. I want to know
[01:36:37] why October 7th victims are in my
[01:36:40] Congress lobbying Congress and writing
[01:36:42] legislation that harms the rights of
[01:36:45] 9/11 widows and children. I'm not asking
[01:36:47] >> how what does that mean? How does that
[01:36:49] they're I don't know why they're writing
[01:36:52] legislation in the first place, but
[01:36:53] since they are
[01:36:54] >> I'm saying they don't Hamas did the
[01:36:56] October 7th attacks. These individuals
[01:36:59] don't even have Iran judgments. And
[01:37:00] they're writing legislation to change
[01:37:03] this fund, this government fund that's
[01:37:05] supposed to be for American victims of
[01:37:07] terrorism. And that's fine. Okay. Why
[01:37:10] are you in my Congress?
[01:37:11] >> Foreigners will get some of this money
[01:37:13] now.
[01:37:14] >> Yeah. I mean, they're well, they're dual
[01:37:16] citizens and they're trying to expand
[01:37:18] the law so that um they're very
[01:37:22] involved. I don't know.
[01:37:23] We're the US government is going to pay
[01:37:25] victims of a terror attack in a foreign
[01:37:28] country that has nothing to do with I,
[01:37:31] you know, we're not responsible for
[01:37:32] October 7th that I know of,
[01:37:34] >> right? But I they're using their um
[01:37:36] they're trying to get an Iran judgment
[01:37:38] for those attacks to say that Iran
[01:37:40] underwrote Hamas and then they're going
[01:37:42] to try to get paid in this government
[01:37:45] fund that was designed for United States
[01:37:47] victims of terrorism. Um,
[01:37:50] >> actually,
[01:37:51] >> actually,
[01:37:52] >> that's an outrage.
[01:37:53] >> Well, I think what's outrageous is that
[01:37:55] we know that they tried to once again
[01:37:58] amend the governing statute of this fund
[01:38:00] and they tried to do it in a way that
[01:38:02] really was going to financially harm the
[01:38:04] widows and children. And we're not
[01:38:05] seeking special treatment. We just want
[01:38:07] to be treated fairly.
[01:38:09] >> But I I just can't get past this. What I
[01:38:11] mean, you know, October 7th bad, as I've
[01:38:14] said many times,
[01:38:15] >> clearly, but you know what? Israel
[01:38:16] already took care of them. But but also
[01:38:18] what does that have to do with us?
[01:38:19] >> Well-developed system for victims of
[01:38:20] terrorism and they've been taken care of
[01:38:22] in Israel. And my question is why aren't
[01:38:25] they going to their own Congress? I
[01:38:27] don't know much about Israel's Congress
[01:38:28] or their laws, but like why aren't they
[01:38:31] in Israel lobbying their Congress? Why
[01:38:33] aren't they in Israel using Israel's
[01:38:35] >> Why would the United States taxpayer pay
[01:38:37] the victims
[01:38:39] of October 7th?
[01:38:41] >> I mean, that's a really good question.
[01:38:42] And again, the lawyers behind these
[01:38:44] groups would come forward. The ADL would
[01:38:47] probably say, "Well, it's not the
[01:38:48] taxpayers. You know, they're using
[01:38:49] sanctions, fines, and money."
[01:38:50] >> What does it have to do with us?
[01:38:52] >> That's what I would question. I don't
[01:38:54] understand why people that go overseas
[01:38:56] and get killed on buses, even if they're
[01:38:58] American citizens, why they're over, you
[01:39:01] know, in the United States. And again,
[01:39:03] if you want to be compensated, that's
[01:39:05] fine. But don't harm the rights of the
[01:39:07] widows and kids. Why is it more
[01:39:09] important to pay people that are injured
[01:39:12] overseas on buses or in military
[01:39:15] installations or as foreign service
[01:39:17] members to pay them six to 66 times more
[01:39:20] a percentage when we live in the United
[01:39:23] States of America and every person is
[01:39:25] supposed to be treated equal under the
[01:39:27] law?
[01:39:27] >> Yeah. Well, that's clearly not
[01:39:28] happening.
[01:39:30] >> This is Yeah. And yeah, this is why
[01:39:32] people's attitudes are changing in a way
[01:39:34] that's
[01:39:35] >> and I would like to say that the lawyers
[01:39:36] that were that third line of collateral
[01:39:38] security combined, all of the lawyers,
[01:39:41] the 9/11 and the non 911 lawyers,
[01:39:43] they've made um approximately $2
[01:39:46] billion.
[01:39:47] >> The lawyers,
[01:39:48] >> yeah, from the fund. And so obviously
[01:39:52] I'm not stupid. Like I know some of that
[01:39:54] money gets, you know, reshuffled around
[01:39:56] and made into contributions to members
[01:39:58] of Congress to reward them for their
[01:40:00] efforts in writing legislation, but I
[01:40:03] think $2 billion to plaintiffs attorneys
[01:40:05] is kind of unsemly. Um,
[01:40:07] >> in a terror victim
[01:40:08] >> in a victim's fund that's supposed to be
[01:40:10] for victims.
[01:40:12] >> Why haven't I heard any of this before?
[01:40:16] >> Why haven't you heard the truth about
[01:40:17] 9/11 before?
[01:40:18] >> Well, that's fair.
[01:40:20] >> Thank you for having me on. Oh my gosh,
[01:40:22] it's been it's been a de I always knew I
[01:40:24] would like you if I met you and I really
[01:40:26] do. No, I mean it. Now here I'm bragging
[01:40:28] about my good sense about people, but I
[01:40:30] do have good sense of people and I was
[01:40:31] right. So you said something. You said
[01:40:33] so many things. I'm just trying to make
[01:40:34] sure I don't miss anything. You said a
[01:40:37] few moments ago that our terror laws
[01:40:39] have been completely rewritten since the
[01:40:41] '90s by this same group of rapacious
[01:40:43] lawyers.
[01:40:45] How how have they changed and what are
[01:40:47] the implications of that? What are you
[01:40:48] talking about exactly? You know, when
[01:40:50] you go back and do a study on all of the
[01:40:52] um anti-terrorism laws, what you find is
[01:40:55] that um there's been a whole
[01:40:57] restructuring and it's a system that
[01:41:00] doesn't it looks on the outside like
[01:41:02] it's serving the victims, but what it's
[01:41:04] really doing is it's broadening a base
[01:41:07] and allowing for um almost an
[01:41:11] innumerable amount of people to sue for
[01:41:14] a terrorist attack. Right. And I
[01:41:16] confronted um council of one of the more
[01:41:19] prominent members of the Senate and I
[01:41:21] said, you know, you guys wrote this law
[01:41:23] and it opens the courthouse doors to so
[01:41:26] many people. You're harming the rights
[01:41:27] of the direct heirs of the actual widows
[01:41:29] and children of people killed. And like
[01:41:32] why would you do that? Why didn't you
[01:41:34] hold a hearing on the ramifications of
[01:41:36] how you're rewriting this law? Why
[01:41:38] didn't you have widows and kids testify
[01:41:40] as to how they're being harmed and their
[01:41:42] rights are being watered down? And the
[01:41:45] guy turned to me and said, you know, we
[01:41:47] just want to open the courthouse doors
[01:41:49] to as many people as possible because
[01:41:50] that serves anti-terrorism policy. And I
[01:41:53] said, it doesn't really serve
[01:41:55] anti-terrorism policy. Um, and I said,
[01:41:58] you're you're not really serving the
[01:42:00] heirs of the people killed properly. And
[01:42:02] I said, and you're giving an awful lot
[01:42:04] of um deference to judges, and you're
[01:42:08] assuming that judges are going to police
[01:42:09] a docket and police a case and a system.
[01:42:12] And I said the judges aren't doing it
[01:42:14] because the judges in many cases are not
[01:42:16] really good judges and they're allowing
[01:42:18] thousands and thousands and thousands of
[01:42:20] people to enter litigation. And what
[01:42:23] that does is twofold. Number one, it
[01:42:26] blocks and you know log jams the actual
[01:42:29] case itself and the case can never
[01:42:31] resolve. Well, there is one upside when
[01:42:33] a case doesn't resolve. You're suing a
[01:42:35] defendant and the case goes on and on
[01:42:37] and on for two decades, right? What
[01:42:39] happens is in some people's minds, I
[01:42:41] read a book on this, is that the actual
[01:42:43] litigation process itself ties up
[01:42:47] certain entities that certain other
[01:42:48] entities believe fund terrorists because
[01:42:51] they're so busy paying lawyers and being
[01:42:53] stuck in court, they're not funneling
[01:42:55] money to terrorists. Well, that's a
[01:42:57] really noble idea except for the fact
[01:42:58] that it's a huge disservice to the
[01:43:00] victims who are entitled to have speedy
[01:43:02] justice for the harm that they've
[01:43:03] suffered. Right? You have litigation
[01:43:05] that lasts two decades. widows and
[01:43:08] children are being disserved by that
[01:43:09] because we're owed immediate justice.
[01:43:11] We're not owed justice a quarter of a
[01:43:13] century later. The second thing that it
[01:43:15] does is it waters down the rights of the
[01:43:18] people under the law who are the most
[01:43:20] prioritized because you're letting in
[01:43:22] all of these other people. What actually
[01:43:24] ends up happening when you open the door
[01:43:26] and you let all those people in is that
[01:43:29] lawyers make more money. And so you have
[01:43:31] a situation where it's not the victims
[01:43:34] that are being protected by these laws
[01:43:36] that are getting rewritten. It's
[01:43:38] actually that, you know, lawyers and
[01:43:41] this
[01:43:43] sort of scheme that's come out of
[01:43:45] anti-terrorism laws and these funds that
[01:43:48] get created and these deals that get
[01:43:51] struck between lawyers and members of
[01:43:54] the Justice Department, the Treasury
[01:43:56] Department, the State Department,
[01:43:58] certain foreign governments, it ends up
[01:44:01] becoming sort of like a scheme. Um, and
[01:44:05] the real victims of terrorism like the
[01:44:07] 9/11 widows and kids who are this
[01:44:08] nation's largest group are revictimized.
[01:44:12] Um, and that's just a fact. And all I
[01:44:14] ask is for there to be a very hard look
[01:44:18] see, if you want to call it, into these
[01:44:20] anti-terrorism laws, into this fund that
[01:44:23] is being run right now that is, in my
[01:44:26] opinion, you know, a Ponzi scheme on top
[01:44:28] of a shell game that's really um
[01:44:31] revictimizing the 9/11 widows and kids.
[01:44:34] Honestly, if I could send one message to
[01:44:36] President Trump, I would beg him to give
[01:44:39] closure and peace to the thousands of
[01:44:42] widows and kids. We've waited 24 years
[01:44:45] to have a modicum of justice. We've been
[01:44:48] abandoned by this country. We were
[01:44:51] abandoned by our Department of Justice.
[01:44:54] Our husband's lives have been exploited,
[01:44:57] used to go to war in Iraq based on lies,
[01:45:01] used to roll in privacy rights, to
[01:45:04] expand the Patriot Act. All of it. We've
[01:45:06] been exploited and we've been left
[01:45:08] behind. And I would just ask for
[01:45:11] President Trump to recognize that and
[01:45:13] appreciate it and just deliver closure
[01:45:15] and peace to us. I think that there's a
[01:45:18] way forward for that. And if there's
[01:45:20] ever been a president that would be able
[01:45:21] to stand apart from the intelligence
[01:45:24] community and to have the courage to do
[01:45:26] that, I think it would be President
[01:45:28] Trump. And I know he didn't get the
[01:45:30] Nobel Peace Prize or appointed or
[01:45:32] nominated for uh his role in the Gaza
[01:45:35] peace process. I think if he resolved
[01:45:38] 9/11 and provided closure to the widows
[01:45:41] and kids, he would probably be nominated
[01:45:44] and win that prize.
[01:45:46] >> He would certainly get my vote.
[01:45:48] >> Kristen Brightweiser, that was an
[01:45:49] amazing conversation.
[01:45:51] >> Thanks.
[01:45:52] >> Makes me emotional. Thank you so much
[01:45:54] for taking the time to do this.
[01:45:55] >> Thank you for giving me the opportunity.
[01:45:56] >> Oh my gosh. Come back anytime.
[01:45:58] >> I really appreciate it. And the widows
[01:45:59] and kids appreciate it. So, thank you.
[01:46:01] >> Thank you.
[01:46:05] We've got a new website we hope you will
[01:46:07] visit. It's called newcommissionnow.com
[01:46:11] and it refers to a new 9/11 commission.
[01:46:14] So, we spent months putting together our
[01:46:16] 9/11 documentary series. And if there's
[01:46:19] one thing we learned, it's that in fact
[01:46:22] there was fornowledge of the attacks.
[01:46:25] People knew.
[01:46:26] >> The American public [music] deserves to
[01:46:28] know.
[01:46:29] >> We're shocked actually to learn that, to
[01:46:30] have that confirmed, but it's true. The
[01:46:31] evidence is overwhelming. The CIA, for
[01:46:33] example, knew the hijackers were here in
[01:46:35] the United States. [music] They knew
[01:46:36] they were planning an act of terror.
[01:46:38] >> In his passport as a visa to go to
[01:46:41] United States of America.
[01:46:43] >> A foreign national [music] was caught
[01:46:44] celebrating as the World Trade Center
[01:46:46] fell and later said he was in New York,
[01:46:48] quote, to document the event. How do you
[01:46:51] know there would be an [music] event to
[01:46:52] document in the first place? Because he
[01:46:53] had fornowledge. And maybe most
[01:46:56] amazingly, somebody, an unknown
[01:46:58] investor, shorted American Airlines
[01:47:00] [music] and United Airlines, the
[01:47:01] companies whose planes the attackers
[01:47:03] used on 9/11, as well as the [music]
[01:47:05] banks that were inside the Twin Towers
[01:47:07] just before the attacks. They made money
[01:47:09] on the 9/11 attacks [music]
[01:47:11] because they knew they were coming. Who
[01:47:14] did that?
[01:47:14] >> You have to look at the evidence.
[01:47:16] >> The US government [music] learned the
[01:47:18] name of that investor, but never
[01:47:21] released it.
[01:47:22] >> [laughter]
[01:47:23] >> Maybe there's an instant explanation
[01:47:24] [music] for all this, but there isn't
[01:47:26] actually. And by the way, it doesn't
[01:47:28] matter whether there is or not. The
[01:47:29] [music] public deserves to know what the
[01:47:31] hell that was. How did people know ahead
[01:47:34] of time? Why was no one ever punished
[01:47:36] for it? 9/11 Commission, [music] the
[01:47:38] original one, was a fraud. It was fake.
[01:47:41] Its conclusions were written before the
[01:47:43] investigation. That's true, and it's
[01:47:45] outrageous. This country needs a new
[01:47:48] 9/11 commission. one that actually tells
[01:47:51] the truth [music] that tries to get to
[01:47:52] the bottom of the story. We can't just
[01:47:54] move on like nothing happened.
[01:47:56] >> 911 [music] commission is a cover.
[01:47:59] >> Something did happen. We need to force a
[01:48:02] new investigation into 9/11 almost 25
[01:48:05] [music] years later. Sorry, justice
[01:48:08] demands it. And if you want that, go to
[01:48:11] new commissionow.com [music]
[01:48:13] to add your name to our petition. We're
[01:48:15] not getting paid for this. We're doing
[01:48:16] this cuz we really mean it.
[01:48:17] Newcommissionow.com
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