EFTA00114763.pdf

1 DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL AUGUST 4, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 431-5800 EFTA00114763  2 APPEARANCES: OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL WITNESS: OTHER APPEARANCES: NONE EFTA00114764  3 1 The recorder is on. My 2 name is IMPROPPIPAR and I am a Senior 3 Special Agent with the U.S. Department of 4 Justice, Office of the Inspector General, New 5 York Field Office, and these are my 6 credentials. 7 MS. Okay. 8 MR. This interview with 9 Federal Bureau of Prisons employee 10 is being conducted as part of an official U.S. 11 Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector 12 General, DOJ/OIG investigation. Today's date 13 is August 4, 2021, and the time is 1:22 p.m. 14 This interview is being conducted at the 15 Metropolitan Correctional Center, the MCC, 16 located in New York, New York. Also present is 17 DOJ/OIG Special Agent . This 18 interview will be recorded by me, SSA 19 20 Could everyone please identify themselves 21 for the record and spell your last name. To 22 start, again, I am DOJ/OIG Senior Special Agent 23 24 This is DOJ/OIG Special Agent 25 and these are my EFTA00114765  4 1 credentials. 2 MS. Thank you. And I'm I= 3 4 MRS: Okay. And what is your 5 position? 6 MS Supervisory Correctional 7 Systems Specialist. 8 MR. : Great. Thank you. This 9 is an official DOJ/OIG investigation into the 10 death of inmate Jeffrey Epstein, and the 11 surrounding circumstances, and you are being 12 asked to voluntarily provide answers to our 13 questions. Will you agree to a voluntary 14 interview with the DOJ/OIG? 15 MS Yes. 16 MR. Thank you. So, there's a 17 form here. It's the United States Department 18 of Justice, Office of the Inspector General, 19 Warnings and Assurances to Employee Requested 20 to Provide Information on a Voluntary Basis. 21 "You are being asked to provide information as 22 part of an investigation being conducted by the 23 Office of the Inspector General. This 24 investigation is being conducted, pursuant to 25 the Inspector General Act of 1978, as amended. EFTA00114766  5 1 This investigation pertains to job performance 2 failure and security failure. This is a 3 voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not 4 have to answer questions. No disciplinary 5 action will be taken against you if you choose 6 not to answer questions. Any statements you 7 furnish may be used as evidence in any future 8 criminal proceedings or agency disciplinary 9 proceedings, or both." 10 And there's a waiver section. It says, "I 11 understand the warnings and assurances stated 12 above, and I am willing to make a statement and 13 answer questions. No promises or threats have 14 been made to me, and no pressure or coercion of 15 any kind has been used against me." 16 So, again, it's just reminding you that 17 you do not have to answer our questions. If 18 there's something you feel uncomfortable with 19 or if you want to stop at any time, you can 20 say, yep, I can, I'm done. 21 MS. Okay. 22 MR. Make sense? 23 msiIIIIIII Yes. 24 MR. Awesome. So, if you 25 agree with that, here, you can review this. It EFTA00114767  6 1 says employee's signature. If you sign there, 2 and then employee's name 3 MS. Okay. 4 MR. -- you can print your 5 name there. Thank you. 6 MS You want my whole name? I'll 7 put it on there. (Indiscernible *00:02:38) 8 What time is it? 9 MR. 1:24 p.m. 10 MR. Thank you for completing 11 that. I can fill in the rest, though. 12 MS. Okay. 13 MR. : So, where it says, 14 employee's name, is it something other than 15 or -- 16 No. That's me. 17 MR. Oh, that's a W? 18 MS. Yeah, that's a W. 19 MR. : Oh, I thought it was a G. 20 MS. Oh, no, that's a W. 21 MR. Thank you. I'm filling 22 in the MCC, New York, as the place. And I'm 23 going to sign. Again, this is 24 M a nd print my name. And Special 25 Agent can you please sign? EFTA00114768  7 1 MR. This is Agent I'm 2 signing as the witness. 3 MR. All right. And if any of 4 these, you don't feel comfortable answering, 5 that's totally fine. 6 MS. Okay. 7 MR. This is just to verify 8 who you are. Oh, first, before we start, I 9 need to place you under oath. Can you please 10 raise your right hand? 11 MS NM Uh-huh. 12 MR. Do you swear to tell the 13 truth and nothing but the truth during this 14 interview? 15 MS. Yes. 16 MR. Awesome. And if there is 17 anything you don't understand or you want me to 18 rephrase or ask it another way, please, by all 19 means -- 20 MS. Okay. 21 MR. -- ask me to do so and I 22 will. What is your current home address? 23 MS. 24 25 EFTA00114769  8 1 MR. Thank you. And your DOB? 2 MS. 3 MR. MATULEWICZ: 4 MS. My date of birth? Oh, 5 6 MR. Well, welcome. What's 7 your social security number? 8 MS. 9 MR. And what is your current 10 cellphone number? 11 MS 12 MR. And what is your highest 13 level of education? 14 MS. Associates Degree. 15 MR. And what is that degree 16 in? 17 MS. In Criminal Justice. 18 MR. And where is that from? 19 MS. Ashworth College. 20 MR. : And where is that? 21 MS. In Georgia. 22 MR. In Georgia? 23 MS. Uh-huh. 24 MR Is, the name of the, 25 what's the town? EFTA00114770  9 1 MS. : I don't, Norcross, Georgia. 2 It's an online school. 3 MR. Oh, okay. 4 MS. A nationally-accredited online 5 school. 6 MR. Okay, great. And when 7 did you attend? 8 MS. I attended in 2017, and I 9 finished in 2019. 10 MR. Okay. Great. And what 11 did you do, prior to working for the BOP? 12 MS-I used to work for Berks 13 County, in Reading, Pennsylvania. I used to 14 work for a detention center. They used to 15 contract illegal immigrant kids and stuff like 16 that, for the government. 17 MR. : Okay. And when did you 18 do that? 19 MS. I did that in, I started here 20 in 2001. I started there, I think it was in 21 1998, I'm thinking. '97, '98. 22 MR. So you did that for, 23 like, three or four years? 24 MS.IIIIIIIII[eah, three or four years, 25 yes. EFTA00114771  10 1 MR Great. Do you have any 2 military service? 3 MS. No. 4 MR. : Okay. And how long have 5 you served with the Bureau of Prisons? 6 MS. : It's 20 years, 20-1/2 years, 7 it will be 21 in April. 8 MR. MATULEWICZ: Do you recall your Enter 9 on Duty date? 10 MS. April 2000. I don't know the 11 day, but I know the year, 2001. 12 MR. : So April 2001? 13 MS. Uh-huh. 14 MR. Great. And when did you, 15 do you remember when you went to BOP training, 16 when you graduated? 17 MS. I went in August of 2001. I 18 went in, yeah, August, either July or August, 19 and I came back a week before 9/11 hit. 20 MR. Okay. And what is your 21 current position with the BOP? 22 MS. Supervisory Correctional 23 Systems Specialist. 24 Are you familiar with 25 Jeffrey Epstein? EFTA00114772  11 1 MS. : Yeah. I heard, he's all on 2 the news and stuff like that, and he was here. 3 So, yeah. 4 MR. : Okay. Great. Sorry. 5 I'm going to circle back to that last question. 6 MS. I Okay. 7 MR. : As that Supervisory 8 Correctional Services -- 9 MS. Uh-huh. 10 MR. : -- Specialist, what does 11 that job duty and responsibilities, what does 12 that all entail? 13 MS. : I'm the supervisor of intake, 14 intake and receiving, receiving and discharge 15 of inmates, when they come in and when they 16 leave. 17 MR. Okay. 18 MS. We supervise the staff. 19 MR. And you, so, basically, 20 is that considered R&D? 21 MS. R&D, yes. 22 MR. So, receiving and 23 discharging? 24 ma. Yes. Receiving and 25 discharging. Yes. EFTA00114773  12 1 MR. And you supervise all of 2 that staff? 3 Uh-huh. 4 MR. And how long have you 5 been 6 MS. Yeah. It's another supervisor 7 there, also. 8 MR. Oh, there's two of you? 9 MS. Yeah, it's two of us. 10 MR. And who is the other one? 11 MS. Her name is 12 13 MR. : Do you happen to know how 14 to spell that last name? 15 MS. MI But she goes 16 by EM* 17 MR. : Oh, okay. 18 MS. Yeah. 19 MR. : So, is a second 20 last name? 21 MS. : Yeah. Uh-huh. 22 Uh-huh. 23 MR. Okay. Okay. And do you, 24 like, differentiate between your duties, the 25 two of you? EFTA00114774  13 1 MS. No, not really. We all do the 2 same thing, cause we're on different shifts. 3 MR. Okay. 4 MS. So, we do the same thing on 5 each shift. 6 MR. : Okay. So you both are 7 responsible for the same thing? 8 MS. Yes. Uh-huh. 9 MR. Just different times of 10 day? 11 Just the times of day, yes. 12 MR. •Z: How long have you been in 13 that position? 14 MS. : I've been in the position, it 15 will be three years in April. 16 MR. : And do you remember when 17 you started? 18 MS. : I started in April 2019. 19 MR. Okay. Great. All right. 20 Now, are you familiar with Jeffrey Epstein? 21 MS. : Yes. 22 MR. : Okay. And was he housed 23 within the MCC in July and August of 2019? 24 MS. Yes. I think so. Yes. 25 MR. : And you had the same EFTA00114775  14 1 position at that time, correct? 2 MS. : Yes. 3 MR. And you have already 4 described your duties and responsibilities. 5 Did you have any interaction or involvement 6 with Epstein during his stay at the MCC? 7 MS. No. 8 MR.- What about when he came 9 in or when he -- 10 MS. No. I don't recall. No. I 11 don't think I ever seen him. 12 MR. No? 13 MS. : Huh-uh. No. 14 MR. : Okay. 15 MS. : Huh-uh. 16 MR. Not on suicide watch or 17 anything like that? 18 MS. No. Huh-uh. 19 MR. : Or in SHU? 20 MS. No. 21 MR. : Okay. 22 MS. Huh-uh. 23 MR. Do you recall if you 24 actually worked at the MCC on August 9th and 25 10th, 2019? EFTA00114776  15 1 MS. : I don't recall, but I probably 2 did day watch, 6 to 2. I probably was here 3 during the day. 4 MR. : Okay. So, 6 a.m. to 2 5 p.m.? 6 MS. Yes. 7 MR. : On August 9th? 8 MS. : Uh-huh. I probably was. I 9 got to look at my -- 10 That would be a Friday. MR'IIIIIIIIIII 11 MS. : Yeah. I have to look at it, 12 and see if I was here. 13 MR. : Okay. And would they 14 have been the same duties and responsibilities 15 that you have described? 16 MS. Yes. Yes. 17 MR. Okay. 18 MS. Uh-huh. 19 MR. And who would you 20 primarily work with during that time? 21 MS. : I work with all the CSOs, 22 Correctional Systems Officers. I don't know 23 who was on that day -- 24 MR. Okay. 25 MS. -- cause that was, like, two EFTA00114777  16 1 years ago. 2 MR. : Sure. 3 MS. MI So I don't remember who was 4 on. 5 MR.-: Do you all, like, so, R&D 6 is a different piece with us. We have, like, 7 all, like, the, oh, what is it called, the 8 daily, like, schedule and logs of everybody who 9 worked -- 10 MS. All the lieutenants, yeah, 11 that's the lieutenant log. 12 MR. : Yeah. Do you guys, well, 13 this is different. I'm talking about, like, 14 the, like, who was working in the custody side 15 of the house. Do you guys have, like, anything 16 like that, like, for instance, here would be 17 the August 10, 2019 daily assignment roster. 18 MS. Yeah. We have a daily 19 assignment, but not a roster. 20 MR. '. : Okay. 21 MS.M It's a daily assignment. It 22 will have, like, everybody's name that's on it, 23 and we just check off who is here. 24 MR. : Okay. 25 MS.-: And then we'll put who is not EFTA00114778  17 1 here, like, AL for Annual Leave, SL for Sick 2 Leave. But we do have that, but it doesn't 3 look like that. 4 MR. : Okay. So, would we be 5 able to go back and see who actually worked on 6 August 9, 2019? 7 MS. Ninth, yes, we should have it. 8 Yes. 9 MR. Can I ask you terribly to 10 do me some favors and start, can you, can we 11 start a list and ask you to, like, provide some 12 of this stuff for us? 13 MS. Yeah. You can write it down. 14 Uh-huh. 15 MR. : Awesome. So, if you want 16 to start, just, the first one would be 17 who was assigned on August 9th, August 8th and 18 9th, 2019. And did you report to anyone? Who 19 did you report to back then? 20 MS. My supervisor was 21 (Phonetic Sp. *00:10:12) We call him NM 22 can't even pronounce, we call, his last name, I 23 can't even pronounce his last name, but we call 24 him 25 MR. : Okay. EFTA00114779  18 1 MS. He's over in Brooklyn now. 2 MR. : Okay. 3 MS. : Over there. 4 MR. : And what was his position 5 then? 6 MS. ME He's a CMC. 7 MR. : What does a CMC stand 8 for? 9 MS. : Case Manager Coordinator. 10 Okay. 11 MS. ME Yeah. CMC, Case Manager 12 Coordinator. Uh-huh. 13 MR. And who would be the Case 14 Manager Coordinator now? 15 MS. ME 16 MR. Oh, he's still the same 17 one? 18 MS. But he's still the same 19 person, but he's just over in Brooklyn. 20 MR. : When you say Brooklyn, at 21 the MDC? 22 MS. MDC, Brooklyn. Yes. 23 MR. Okay. 24 MS= Yes. 25 MR. : And did all those people EFTA00114780  19 1 that you mentioned that work in R&D, did they 2 report to you? 3 MS'IIIIII: Yes. 4 MR. Okay. 5 MS. Uh-huh. Me and Ms. Square. 6 MR. : Okay. And were you 7 previously interviewed under this 8 investigation? 9 MS. No. 10 MR. No? 11 MS. Huh-uh. 12 MR. : Do you have any, what is 13 your understanding of what happened to Epstein 14 on August 9th and 10th of 2019? 15 MS. : That he just committed 16 suicide. That's it. 17 MR. Okay. So, do you know 18 how he died? 19 MS. No. Huh-uh. 20 MR. No? Do you know if he, 21 like, died of hanging or anything like that? 22 MS. I guess it was hanging. I 23 heard it was hanging, but I don't, I didn't 24 really, like, ask, cause 25 MR. : Okay. And do you have EFTA00114781  20 1 any information with regard to any suspicious 2 activity that occurred on August 9th or 10th, 3 2019 -- 4 MS. : No. 5 MR. -- leading up to the 6 discovery of Epstein in his cell? 7 MS. No. 8 MR. : No? Okay. So, these 9 are, now, we'll get into kind of the reason why 10 we're here, is to get into this documentation. 11 So, we have, there's an inmate, it's, Epstein 12 was housed with a cellmate named Efrain Reyes. 13 MS. Ma Uh-huh. 14 MR. M eirid we have a couple of 15 things coming from the U.S. Marshalls Service. 16 MS. : Okay. 17 MR. : Saying what was going on 18 with Efrain Reyes. So, here is one. It says 19 it's from a (Phonetic Sp. *00:12:04) 20 21 MSIIIIIIi: Yeah, Uh-huh. 22 MR. IIIIIIII It was sent on 23 Thursday, August 8, 2019, at 10:34 a.m. 24 MS. Uh-huh. 25 MR. : And it's, you're one of EFTA00114782  21 1 the, it looks like it says R (Indiscernible 2 *00:12:14). 3 MS. Yeah, that's all R&D. Yeah. 4 MR. Okay. So, it was sent to 5 all R&D. 6 MS. : Uh-huh. Yeah. 7 MR. And yourself, and it 8 says, "Transfer of Prisoners from NYM to Geo." 9 MS. M: To Geo, yes. 10 MR. : So, is that from the MCC 11 to the contract facility? 12 MS. : Yeah, from MCC, and he's 13 transferring to Geo, yes. 14 MR. : Okay. Great. And then, 15 in the body, it says, "The following prisoners 16 are to be transferred." 17 MS. : Yes. 18 MR. : It says Jayvon Busey 19 (Phonetic Sp. *00:12:37) and then Efrain Reyes. 20 MS. Yes. 21 MR. "Please schedule transfer 22 for Friday, 8/9/19." 23 MS. MI Uh-huh. 24 MR. And we have another one, 25 the same date, it says it's from a different EFTA00114783  22 1 person with the Marshalls Service, saying - 2 MS.= 3 MR. 4 MS. : Uh-huh. 5 Again, this is all, like, 6 R&D. 7 MS. MI R&D and other staff, yes. 8 MR. : As well as the 9 lieutenants and, okay. 10 MS. : Yes. Uh-huh. 11 MR. There's you, and it says, 12 "Prisoner production, 8/9/2019." Thursday, 13 August 8, 2019. 14 MS. IIIIII Was sent out -- 15 MR. : That was sent at 3:36 16 p.m. 17 MS. : Uh-huh. 18 MR. : And then within it, it 19 has the prisoner's schedule report, and the 20 second person, there are the two people that I 21 just listed -- 22 MS. Yes. 23 MR. -- and the second person 24 being Efrain Reyes. 25 Yes. EFTA00114784  23 1 MR. And it says, "Transfer 2 within." 3 MS. Yes. 4 MR. Does this tell you what 5 happened with Efrain Reyes? 6 MS. This just says that he 7 transferred to Geo. That's it. That's what 8 this says. He's transferring. 9 MR. IIIIIIIIII: Okay. 10 MS. That's all it says. But right 11 here, when they do a transfer, I don't know, 12 like, right here, this says court. So, I don't 13 know if he went out to court and then they 14 transferred him, you see what I'm saying? 15 MR. Uh-huh. 16 MS Cause this says court. And 17 plus, as me being a supervisor, I don't do the 18 movement. 19 MR..= Z: Okay. So who, who -- 20 MS. I'm not the movement officer. 21 MR So who would do that? 22 MS. • 23 MR. • would be the one? 24 MS. Yes. Yeah, she does the 25 movement. Me and Ms. we don't do the EFTA00114785  24 1 movement. 2 MR. : Okay. So, based upon 3 this, does this, cause this person also is 4 listed as transfer within, court. 5 MS Yeah, and court. Yes. 6 MR. : And everybody else -- 7 MS'IIIIIII Uh-huh. 8 MR. no one else has that 9 next to their name. They all have, like, 10 sentencing hearing, sentencing, status hearing. 11 MS. M. Yeah, but that still, the type 12 is court. That's just what they're going to 13 court for. 14 MR. a Right. So, this one, 15 though, being that says transfer within, court 16 17 MS Transfer, he's transferring, 18 and he (Indiscernible *00:14:16). 19 MR. Does that mean he was 20 going to court, or that's just an automatic 21 field? 22 MS. I guess that's automatically, 23 they put that there, cause this is the U.S. 24 Marshalls form. So, I think they automatically 25 just put that there. I think what it is, is EFTA00114786  25 1 that when they come and pick up the inmates, 2 cause the U.S. Marshalls will pick up the 3 inmates. 4 MR Uh-huh. 5 MS. And they will transfer them. 6 So, I guess they go sit over there, like 7 they're going to court, and then Geo comes over 8 there and they pick them up from the U.S. 9 Marshalls. 10 MR. : Okay. 11 MS. That's how it works. 12 MR. So, when someone is 13 transferred, so, when these people are 14 transferred from here to Geo -- 15 MS.M Uh-huh. 16 MR. what document is 17 created by, I guess it sounds like but 18 by the BOP (Indiscernible *00:14:53). 19 MS. We only do like a, we need, 20 like a transfer receipt from the Marshalls, 21 saying that they're going to transfer and we 22 usually just need a 64. 23 MR. : Uh-huh. 24 MS. : And a medical summary. A 64 25 is a transit form. EFTA00114787  26 1 MR. Okay. 2 MS. That the BOP, that we just go 3 on Sentry and do a PP 64 and put the reg 4 number, and we put T for transfer, and down at 5 the bottom, we could put as many reg, I think 6 it's like 20 reg numbers down there, of whoever 7 inmates are leaving, and then a 64 will be 8 printed out. 9 MR. Okay. 10 MS. And it's just a transit form. 11 MR. Now is there something 12 that's like, would these people be placed on 13 the court list, though? 14 MS. Yes. Yes. 15 MR. Okay, so they would be 16 put on the court 17 MS. : They would be placed on the 18 court list, yes. Yes. 19 MR. : And what would it say 20 next to their name? 21 MS. : WAB. 22 MR. And that's it? 23 MS. : Yes. That's it. 24 MR. : Okay. 25 MS. IIIII/ Uh-huh. That's what she EFTA00114788  27 1 usually puts, WAB, on there. 2 MR.IIIIIIIIIII: Now, if that court list 3 is provided to us, so if Epstein was housed in 4 the SHU, the SHU would be provided that court 5 list, correct? 6 MS. Yes. 7 MR. : It would say -- 8 msiIIIIII: It would be like a, it's like 9 a roster. It's not -- 10 MR.-: I said Epstein, I'm 11 sorry, I mean, Efrain Reyes. 12 MS. Yeah, it's like 13 MR. : If Reyes was housed in 14 the SHU -- 15 MS. It's like a roster. They 16 wouldn't get this or anything like that. It's 17 just like you go on Sentry and you print out a 18 roster and it will have his name on there, and 19 then we'll write down what unit he's on, and 20 then internal will come and pick it up, or they 21 will hand it out, whatever, whoever is going 22 out to court, that's the unit that they give 23 the court list to. 24 MR. : Okay. 25 MS.M: That's how it works. EFTA00114789  28 1 MR. : So, would those people 2 know if he was going to court or being 3 transferred? 4 MS. IIIII: They wouldn't know that. 5 MR. Z: They wouldn't know that? 6 They would just know it was WAB? 7 Ms. IMO: Cause it's really, like, it's 8 really none of their business. 9 MR. : Right. Okay. 10 MS. Yeah. They would just know 11 that he's gone. You know what I mean? 12 MR. : Well, because, like, kind 13 of like when you said, when I said, you knew 14 who Efrain, or, you know, Epstein was or is, 15 you said, yeah, he went to court. 16 MS. : Yeah. Uh-huh. 17 MR. : Cause, is that -- 18 MS. Yeah, cause, I'm - 19 -- so, like, that's MR' 20 actually the rumor? 21 MS. That's what, that's what it 22 would be, or we'll call up there, like, are you 23 going to send Efrain Reyes down, and they will 24 say, yeah, he's going to court, and then if he 25 doesn't come back, we might call up there, or EFTA00114790  29 1 they will know that he's not, cause he's not, 2 or they'll call us and ask us. 3 MR. : Okay. 4 MS. You know? Or something like 5 that. So, they should have, I'm thinking they 6 should have known we would have probably, 7 somebody probably would have told them that he 8 wasn't coming back, he was getting transferred. 9 MR. : Okay. So, as far as 10 this, there's the daily log, 8/9/2019, and on 11 the third page of this shows Reyes, pre- 12 removed. 13 MS. Yes. 14 MR. : Now, if he was just going 15 to court -- 16 MS. : It would say court. 17 MR. Yeah. It wouldn't say 18 pre-removed? 19 MS. It wouldn't say pre-removed. 20 Yes. 21 MR. Z: So, this is, by looking 22 at all of this, I'm assuming you can tell, 23 yeah, he was never going to court. He was 24 always going to be transferred? 25 MS. MIA He was going, yes. Yes. Yes. EFTA00114791  30 1 MR. : Okay. And I think this 2 may have been what you were saying. Is there 3 any way for the SHU staff to know, he's leaving 4 and not coming back, rather than -- 5 MS. See, we don't, like, it 6 depends. Cause we really don't, we really 7 don't tell them, like, if I talk to them, I 8 might say, like, he's not coming back. 9 MR. : Okay. 10 MS. 'lilt: Or so, I might tell them, so I 11 don't know, on that day, who called up there 12 and told them to have him ready, you know what 13 I mean? And have him ready, and he's not 14 coming back. 15 MR. : Now, who would normally 16 call and tell them that? 17 MS. It would be the person that's 18 working in R&D. 19 MR1.= Okay. So would it be 20 probably for this, as well? 21 MS It wouldn't be Yeah, 22 she just does the movement. 23 MR. Okay. 24 That's it. MSIIIIIIII 25 MR. It wouldn't have been EFTA00114792  31 1 her? 2 MS. No, it wouldn't have been her. 3 MR. All right. 4 MS. : She just does the movement. 5 So, it would be the person that's on the front 6 desk. 7 MR. So, if the people that 8 escorted Reyes down -- 9 MS. Uh-huh. 10 MR. to R&D and they knew 11 that WAB was actually, in fact, listed next to 12 his name 13 MS. Uh-huh. 14 MR. -- should have they known 15 that he is not coming back, if it says WAB? 16 MS. Not really. 17 No? 18 MS. Because they don't work R&D. 19 You see what I mean? They work custody. 20 MR. Okay. 21 MS So, it depends who was up 22 there. It could have been new staff, who 23 knows. Cause a lot of people don't know what 24 WAB does. 25 MR. Well, they know it means EFTA00114793  32 1 "with all belongings." 2 MS. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's 3 true. 4 MR. So, a person who would 5 say, yeah, I know it's with all belongings, 6 and, you know, we know it's very likely there 7 is not going to come back, but we don't know 8 for sure. Does that sound at all reasonable? 9 MS. They probably would have 10 asked, like, called to see if he was coming 11 back. Like, it was after, maybe 4:00 or 12 something like that 13 MR. Then they usually would - 14 15 MS. -- they probably would have 16 asked if he was coming back, cause, like, when 17 I first transferred here, I worked in Brooklyn 18 and then I transferred to Butner. I didn't 19 know what WAB meant -- 20 MR. : Right. 21 MS. -- until I got here, cause we 22 don't use WAB, you see what I mean? 23 MR. Yeah, but if these 24 people, if these people absolutely said no, we 25 know what WAB is -- EFTA00114794  33 1 MS. AB, yes. 2 MR. -- but they thought, you 3 know, if they're claiming, well, we thought he 4 was going to court, and there's always a chance 5 he could come back from court? So, see what 6 I'm saying? So, with this guy 7 MS. Yeah. 8 MR. -- so this goes, so where 9 this fits in is, Epstein, did you know that 10 Epstein was required to have a cellmate? 11 MS. : I didn't know that, no. 12 MR. Okay. So, he was 13 required to have a cellmate, and Reyes was his 14 cellmate. 15 MS. : Okay. 16 MR. So, part of the reason 17 why they're saying that Epstein died is because 18 his cellmate was removed and never replaced. 19 So, you know, some people say it's because of 20 the 30 minute rounds, or a lot of it is the 21 combination, some people are saying, well, 22 there was no one in his cell, so he took 23 advantage of not having anybody in there. 24 MS. Okay. 25 MR. : So, in this case, the SHU EFTA00114795  34 1 staff, some people are saying, yep, I knew he 2 was WAB, but there's always a chance that he 3 could, he could have returned. Is that a legit 4 5 MS. : No. Not a WAB. 6 MR. MININEMONE: No? So, a WAB, they 7 should have known he ain't coming back? 8 MS.= Huh-uh. He's not coming back. 9 Yeah. 10 MR. •: Okay. 11 MS. WAB. 12 mR. Okay. 13 MS. Unless we tell you something 14 different. But a WAB, he's not coming back. 15 MR. Okay. So, it's the 16 primary question then. 17 MS. Yes. 18 MR. Great. So, again, to 19 you, so, (Indiscernible *00:20:19), he was 20 being transferred, not going to court. 21 MS. Not going to court. But I 22 guess the Marshall just took court, because 23 when they come, if a WAB is leaving with the 24 Marshalls, they usually just put court, because 25 they pick the inmates up -- EFTA00114796  35 1 MR. All the same -- 2 MS. -- everybody at the same time, 3 and take them over there, so that's why they 4 have court. 5 MR. Okay. 6 MS. On their form. 7 MR. So, this is, anytime we 8 present someone with documents, you just ask 9 them to initial and date it. 10 MS. Okay. 11 MR. It's not to vouch for 12 the, not certifying it's accurate, just so you 13 can say, this is what we discussed. 14 MS. What I saw. Okay. 15 MR. ignielint So, just anywhere. And 16 it is the 4th. 17 MR. So, the two emails, 18 technically, what you're saying, this goes 19 hand-in-hand, one says he's being transferred, 20 the other one states that he is being picked up 21 by the Marshalls (Indiscernible *00:21:09). 22 MS. Yeah. Yeah. They both go 23 hand-in-hand, because this one is the 24 Marshalls, that they're telling us, but they're 25 telling us WAB, he's going to Geo. So, we'll EFTA00114797  36 1 know he's transferring to another state. 2 That's another state facility that houses 3 federal inmates for the Marshalls. And then 4 this one is the list that the Marshalls put 5 out, also, so they kind of go hand-in-hand. 6 MR. How the pick-up itself is 7 (Indiscernible *00:21:30). 8 MS. WM Yes, how the pick-up, yes. 9 But everything is going to say court on the 10 side, because the Marshalls are going to pick 11 up, when they pick up the court, they're 12 picking up the WABs also. 13 MR. And on that court document, 14 you might have answered this already, the court 15 document that's created internally, it would 16 have said WAS? 17 MS. : Yeah. Like, it's like almost, 18 a receipt, a transfer receipt that we do. 19 MR. la Okay. 20 MS. And it will say WAB. It will 21 say, like, it will say his reg number, his 22 name, and it will say his unit and it will say 23 pre-removed, so pre-removed, that means he's 24 not coming back. You know what I mean? 25 MR. And that's (Indiscernible EFTA00114798  37 1 *00:22:04). 2 MS. : Pre-removed. Yeah. He's not 3 coming back. So that's what would it be. It 4 would say pre-removed. 5 MR. Do you have a copy of an 6 example of what that court document looks like? 7 No, right? Is it possible that we 8 MR. The court list? 9 MR. The court list. Do we, if 10 you can provide us with one? 11 MS. We don't have, huh-uh. 12 No, not that one, but any 13 type of -- 14 MS. Which one? 15 MR. -- what it looks like? 16 MS. Any samples? 17 MR. Yeah. 18 MS. I could 19 MR. Has it changed since that 20 time, that document? 21 MS. M: Cause we do a, but, yeah, the 22 Marshalls, now they got a picture on theirs, 23 the picture of the inmate and stuff like that. 24 And now we sign for it. I don't know if that's 25 because of Epstein. I don't know. EFTA00114799  38 1 MR. But we just want an example. 2 MS. Now we have to sign. 3 MR. If you can provide us -- 4 MS. Okay. 5 MR. I'll put that on here. 6 MS. I'll put that, write that 7 down. Write down Marshalls, like a Marshalls 8 receipt. And I can give you a copy of it. 9 I'll black, can I blacken out the inmate's 10 photos on there? 11 MR. That's fine. 12 MR. Photos and the name, if 13 you want. 14 MS. Okay. 15 MR. We just need to see 16 MS. You just want to see -- 17 MR. -- what it says next to 18 their names. 19 MS. Yeah, their new one. 20 MR. (Indiscernible *00:23:03) 21 differentiate 22 MS. The ones that the Marshalls -- 23 MR. somebody is going to 24 court or someone is being transferred, you 25 know. EFTA00114800  39 1 MS. Okay. 2 MR. : With that, just so we can 3 say, like, cause, like you said, you don't have 4 that court list anymore? 5 MS. No. Huh-uh. No. Huh-uh. 6 MR. : And are they maintained 7 for any amount of period of them? 8 MS. We, no. Huh-uh. 9 MR. So that day, you get rid 10 of them? 11 MS =: Uh-huh. Yeah. 12 MR. And there are never 13 emails or anything? 14 MS. I don't know how far my emails 15 are going to go back. You see what I'm saying? 16 I don't think my emails go all the way back. 17 MR. : Well, we have access to 18 be able to get everybody's emails. 19 MS. Okay. 20 MR.-: Cause we actually got 21 those, some of these from 22 MS. So, you could probably look 23 and see. 24 MR. : But are they ever 25 emailed? EFTA00114801  40 1 MS. Because that would be 2 would, yeah, she would have did it, because she 3 would email to the unit team and to medical, 4 stating that she needs a medical summary form. 5 MR. : Okay. So, and she would 6 have sent the court list? 7 MS. a Yeah, she would have sent the, 8 like, not, see, he would, since he is WAB, it 9 would be a receipt that she would send out, 10 saying that she needed a medical summary and a 11 64 for him. 12 MR. : Okay. Make sure you're 13 documenting those, too. 14 MS. Yeah, they wouldn't get the, 15 they wouldn't get the court list, like the unit 16 team that, his unit team and the medical 17 department wouldn't get the court list. She 18 would do her own one and send it, saying that 19 they're leaving, those two are leaving and can 20 you please send me a medical summary and a 64? 21 MR. But the actual court list 22 wouldn't be emailed to anybody? 23 MS. Yeah. It probably would. I 24 don't know how the Marshall was doing it at 25 that time. I think they were doing it just EFTA00114802  41 1 like that. But we don't email the Marshalls 2 court list to anybody like that. 3 MR. No, no, no. I mean, 4 like, don't you create what you give to the 5 SHU, saying 6 MS. It's a roster. It's on a, 7 when we go on Sentry, that's how it's created. 8 MR. : But is it still on 9 Sentry, that 10 MS. No. It gets deleted. 11 MR. Okay. 12 MS. Yeah. And we get a new, we do 13 a new one. 14 MR. : Every day? 15 MS. Yeah. And that's what Andrea 16 does. 17 MR. So, it's only kept for 18 that one day? 19 MS. Yes. Yes. Uh-huh. 20 MR. And there's no way to -- 21 MS. And it's not really even kept. MR. Right. 23 MS. We just print it out. That's 24 it. Like, we got, when we go in to do another 25 one, we got to delete the old one. EFTA00114803  42 1 MR. : Okay. So, it's never 2 kept for any period of time, really? 3 MS. No. Huh-uh. 4 MR. Printed out, given out 5 MS. Given out. Yeah. Uh-huh. 6 MR. : -- then (Indiscernible 7 *00:25:10) shredded. 8 MS. Yeah. 9 MR. Trashed? 10 MS. - Uh-huh. 11 MR. All right. So there's no 12 way for us, whatever was created, saying what 13 it said next to Efrain Reyes's name, whether it 14 said WAS or not, there's no way to tell -- 15 MS. I can o see -- ask 16 MR. Yeah, yeah. We're going 17 to talk to her. 18 MS. Yeah. Talk to, and see if she 19 has it. 20 MR. When she came in, just so 21 you know, she was great. She was very 22 cooperative. 23 MS. Yeah. To see if -- 24 MR. But we didn't have these 25 documents (Indiscernible *00:25:29)• EFTA00114804  43 1 MS. Yeah, to see if she has it. 2 If ya'll could go back in her email, I don't 3 know how, cause she's the movement person. 4 MR. : Right. 5 MS. : So, to see how far she went 6 back. 7 MR. Yeah, if you could ask 8 her, I mean, it might come, mean more from you. 9 MS. : Okay. She won't be back until 10 tomorrow. 11 MR. : Right. And we're hoping 12 to be back here tomorrow. 13 MS. MI Okay. She won't be back until 14 12 tomorrow. She comes in at 12. 15 MR. Okay, perfect. Anything 16 more on Reyes before we move to Fernandez? 17 MR ' EM No. 18 MR. Okay. Do you have any 19 (Indiscernible *00:25:56) any daily lieutenant 20 logs? 21 MS . : No. None. 22 MR. None? All right. So, if 23 you see on this daily lieutenant log, just to 24 close out the loop with Reyes, it does actually 25 say, we don't know when it was entered, but it EFTA00114805  44 1 does say at 8:38, he was pre-removed. Now, the 2 other person we wanted to talk to you about is 3 this I.M. Fernandez, and it says on dry cell 4 with staff watching, R&D. 5 MS. I don't -- 6 MR. And then it says, "At 7 3:15 p.m., on August 9, 2019, Fernandez was 8 placed on dry cell from ZA," which is the SHU. 9 Do you know anything about this? 10 MS. NO. Huh-uh. 1