EFTA00117266.pdf

1 DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE 4: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL MARCH 16, 2022 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES Suite 285 Agoura Rills, CA 91301 Phone: EFTA00117266  2 APPEARANCES: OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: BY: WITNESS: OTHER APPEARANCES: NONE EFTA00117267  3 1 MR. : This is Special Agent 2 Today is March 16th, and the time is 3 9:55 a.m. The recorder is now on. My name is 4 I am a Special Agent with the 5 U.S. Department of Justice, Office of the 6 Inspector General, New York Field Office, and 7 these are my credentials. 8 MS. : Thank you, sir. 9 MR. : This interview with the 10 Federal Bureau of Prisons employee, Lieutenant 11 , is being conducted as part of 12 an official U.S. Department of Justice, Office 13 of the Inspector General investigation. 14 Today's date is March 16th, 2022. The 15 time is 9:56 a.m. This interview is being 16 conducted at the Federal Bureau of Prisons 17 Metropolitan Detention Center, Brooklyn, New 18 York, warden's conference room. 19 Also present are DOJ/OIG Assistant Special 20 Agent-in-Charge, , Lieutenant 21 This interview will be 22 recorded by me, Special Agent 23 Could everyone please themselves for the 24 record, and spell your last name? To start, 25 again, I am DOJ/OIG Special Agent EFTA00117268  4 1 2 MR. : Assistant Special Agent- 3 in-Charge with the DOJ/OIG 4 and these are my credentials. 5 MS. : Yes, sir. 6 MR. : Please identify yourself. 7 MS. : Lieutenant 8 . Last name 9 With the Federal Bureau of Prisons. 10 MR. : This is an official DOJ/OIG 11 investigation into events surrounding the death 12 of inmate Jeffrey Epstein, and you are being 13 asked to voluntarily provide answers to our 14 questions. Will you agree to a voluntary 15 interview with the DOJ/OIG? 16 MS. : Yes. 17 MR. : Please review DOJ/OIG form 18 I1I-226/2. The form states, United States 19 Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector 20 General, Warnings and Assurances to Employee 21 Requested to Provide Information on a Voluntary 22 Basis. 23 "You are being asked to provide 24 information as part of an investigation being 25 conducted by the Office of the Inspector EFTA00117269  5 1 General. This investigation is being conducted 2 pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, 3 as amended. 4 This investigation pertains to job 5 performance failure and security failure. This 6 is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do 7 not have to answer questions. No disciplinary 8 action will be taken against you if you choose 9 not to answer questions. 10 Any statement you furnish may be used as 11 evidence in any future criminal proceedings, or 12 agency disciplinary proceeding, or both." The 13 waiver states, "I understand the Warnings and 14 Assurances stated above, and I am willing to 15 make a statement and answer questions. 16 No promises or threats have been made to 17 me, and no pressure or coercion of any kind has 18 been used against me." Please review the form 19 and if you understand and agree, please sign 20 where it says Employee Signature. 21 MS. : Okay. 22 MR. : And print your name right 23 below that. 24 MS. : Below that. Okay. 25 MR. : I'm going to sign on the EFTA00117270  6 1 signature of the Office of Inspector General. 2 MR. : Okay. And this is 3 , and I will sign as the witness and 4 fill out the rest of the form. What is the 5 time, 6 MR. : It is 9:59 a.m. 7 MR. : 9:59 a.m., and the place 8 is the MDC Brooklyn. 9 MR. : Thank you. Before starting 10 the interview, I would like to place you under 11 oath. Lieutenant , can you please raise 12 your right hand? 13 MS. : Sure. 14 MR. : Do you swear to the tell the 15 truth and nothing but the truth during this 16 interview? 17 MS. : Yes, sir. 18 MR. : Thank you. You can put your 19 hand down. 20 MS. : Okay. 21 MR. : Please let me know if you 22 don't understand any questions, and I will try 23 to repeat it, or try to rephrase it for you. 24 MS. : Okay. 25 MR. : Thank you for taking the time EFTA00117271  7 1 to meet with us today. You previously told us 2 - we'll jump right into it - you met with us in 3 the past. 4 MS. : Yes. 5 MR. : And you previously told us 6 that you were off on August 9th, 2019. That 7 was a Friday. Do you recall? 8 MS. : On August 9th, 2019? I think 9 I was off on the Friday. I think my last day 10 of working was August 8th, I think it was. 11 MR. : August 8th. And do you 12 recall mentioning to us about an issue with the 13 camera -- 14 MS. : Yes. 15 MR. : -- system? 16 MS. : Yes. 17 MR. : And you had addressed that 18 situation with the communications technician 19 20 MS. : Yes. 21 MR. : And you remember mentioned, I 22 think the conversation was between - you want 23 to tell us a little bit about it again? Your 24 recollection of it. 25 MS. : Sure. I was - after I was EFTA00117272  8 1 reviewing the camera, I was looking for an 2 inmate that may have possibly departed the 3 building. So, I was, I went to the camera to 4 review the, to see if I can backtrack exactly 5 when he left the building. 6 I was present at the SIS office, with the 7 Associate Warden from MCC New York at the time, 8 which is AW , we both were looking at the 9 camera, and at that moment, I noticed I 10 couldn't rewind on the cameras. 11 So, I couldn't get any playback. At that 12 moment, we stopped, you know, like, searching 13 for the inmate because we couldn't go back any 14 further than the time we were at. And at that 15 time, I notified communications tech 16 I called him over the radio and let him 17 know, hey, I'm trying to rewind back the 18 cameras, and the cameras won't rewind. And he 19 said he will come and take a look at the system 20 and see what was going on. 21 And which he did. He did come down and he 22 looked at the system, and he said he has to do 23 overtime to fix the system. At that moment, I 24 notified Captain . I apologized 25 that the cameras was down, and I also provided EFTA00117273  9 1 him with a memorandum, letting him know that 2 the camera system was down. 3 MR. : Okay. And we were able to -- 4 MR. : Before we get into that, 5 though -- 6 MS. : Okay. I'm sorry. 7 MR. : -- as far as the - so, 8 there was a discrepancy with what you said and 9 what AW said. Did you just rewind one 10 and that's not a big discrepancy - just, did 11 you rewind one video at that time, the one you 12 were trying to look at, or did you rewind 13 multiple, to determine that the -? 14 MS. : No. I went back on quite a 15 few. 16 MR. : And was that with AW 17 present? 18 MS. : I can't remember if she 19 stayed -- 20 MR. : Okay. 21 MS. : -- while I was going back at 22 the cameras, to be honest with you. 23 MR. : Because she was saying -- 24 MS. : But I -. 25 MR. : -- she thought it was EFTA00117274  10 1 just one while she was there, so -- 2 MS. : Right. 3 MR. : -- if it's -. 4 MS. : I can't remember if she 5 stayed, but I did go back on several cameras on 6 the housing units and different areas, to see 7 can I -- 8 MR. : Okay. 9 MS. -- rewind. 10 MR. : So, you did, but she 11 possibly didn't. 12 MS. : Yes. Yes. 13 MR. : Okay. Great. 14 MR. : So, we were able to identify, 15 with your assistance, through this document was 16 provided to AW , and AW provided this 17 to the MCC attorneys, who in turn provided it 18 to the OIG. 19 MS. : Okay. 20 MR. : And this is the memo that was 21 written by you. I'm going to read it out for 22 the record. Up top it says, the United States 23 Government Memorandum. Federal Bureau of 24 Prisons. MCC New York. New 25 York. The date is August 10th, 2019, from II EFTA00117275  11 1 , SIS Lieutenant to , Captain. 2 MS. : Mm-hmm. 3 MR. : Subject is, "NiceVision 4 (Phonetic Sp. *00:07:26) camera system." "On 5 August 8th, 2019, at approximately 3:45 p.m., 6 while reviewing the Nice camera system, I 7 attempted to recover video footage from the 8 unit 5-South housing unit." 9 MS. : Yes. 10 MR. "At this time, I was unable 11 to recover any previous recordings from the 12 camera. This prompting me to review all of the 13 cameras. None of the cameras on the system 14 were able to record. 15 Therefore, I called communication 16 technician-, via radio. At 17 approximately 4:00 p.m., responding to 18 the third floor phone monitoring room to check 19 the cameras, and notified me that the cameras 20 were not recording, and there was no way to 21 retrieve any video. stated he fixed the 22 camera system on Friday, August 9th, 2019, when 23 he arrived to work." 24 MS. : Mm-hmm. 25 MR. : Do you recall writing this EFTA00117276  12 1 memo? 2 MS. : Yes. 3 MR. : Is this the memo? Okay. 4 MS. : Yes. 5 MR. : Just to clarify, the date 6 that you wrote the memo will be on August 10th? 7 MS. : Yes. 8 MR. : This would be the Saturday 9 following 10 MS. : Yes, sir. It would be the 11 Saturday. 12 MR. : And August 9th, you were off? 13 MS. : Yes. I'm almost sure I 14 wasn't there the Friday. I'm almost sure that 15 I wasn't in the building. 16 MR. : That last sentence, that's 17 the -- 18 MR. : Well, first, just to 19 clarify, the August 10th. So, previously, and 20 I think again, you just, I think you assumed 21 you wrote it on August 8th, but it looks like 22 you actually wrote it on the 10th. 23 MS. : I did assume that I wrote it 24 on the 8th. 25 MR. : All right. EFTA00117277  13 1 MS. : I did. 2 MR. : So, looking at that now, 3 do you know that it was now written on the 4 10th, on the Saturday, as opposed to on that 5 Thursday, when you first found out? 6 MS. : Yes. 7 MR. : Okay. So, that's not, 8 like, a misunderstanding? That's, now looking 9 at it, you're, like, oh, that's correct, you 10 actually wrote it on -. So, does that mean 11 that you didn't tell Captain until the 12 10th, as well? 13 MS. : No. I definitely told him 14 when the cameras was found, because he wouldn't 15 have had any footage, have anything occur. 16 MR. : Because when we spoke 17 with Captain , he didn't think he would 18 or he said he wasn't told until that Saturday. 19 He says he was never informed on that Thursday 20 or Friday. 21 So, we were just - now seeing that memo - 22 we were trying to think, oh, maybe you were 23 just mistaken because you were very confident, 24 no, I told the Captain, and I provided him the 25 memo. So, seeing that, does that maybe make EFTA00117278  14 1 you think -? 2 MS. : No. I'm definitely positive 3 that I told him when the cameras was down 4 because we always do. 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MS. : Because if something 7 happened, we need to get footage at that 8 moment. 9 MR. : Uh-huh. 10 MS. : And I do recall him asking me 11 did I notify that the cameras was down, 12 and I told him I did -- 13 MR. : Okay. 14 MS. : -- because was going 15 to stay to do overtime to fix them. 16 MR. : And you're positive that 17 that was on the 8th? 18 MS. : I'm positive -- 19 MR. : Sorry, go ahead. 20 MS. : -- it was on the 8th. 21 MR. : Sorry. Go ahead. 22 MR. : Okay. And the last thing 23 says, " stated he fixed the camera system 24 on Friday, August 9th, when he arrived to 25 work." Just to clarify, does that mean that he EFTA00117279  15 1 - sorry, let me pause for a second. 2 UNKNOWN FEMALE: I'm sorry. Hi. Hi. How 3 are you? 4 MR. : We're on a recording, 5 just so you know. 6 MR. : So 7 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Oh, I'm sorry. 8 MR. : Okay. 9 MR. : Just to clarify, the last 10 statement -- 11 MS. : Yes. 12 MR. : -- does that mean that he 13 fixed, stated, now, did tell you that he 14 fixed the camera on August 9th? Or does it 15 mean that he told you that he will come in on 16 August 9th and fix the camera? 17 MS. : No. On the 8th, he told me 18 he was staying that evening to fix the cameras. 19 When seen me on the 10th, when I entered 20 the Special Housing Unit, he was in there. I 21 don't know if he was working, if he was doing 22 overtime. 23 But as soon as I entered the Special 24 Housing Unit, Mr. immediately approached 25 me. Immediately approached me, and I said, EFTA00117280  16 1 well, what happened with the camera system? 2 Because we had this conversation that you will 3 fix it on the 8th. And he said I fixed it 4 yesterday. And then, I'm here today, which is 5 the 10th, to finish up. 6 MR. : So, you mean, he started 7 fixing it yesterday? 8 MS. : So, I'm assuming that, I 9 don't know if he started, or if he fixed it, 10 but I could only go by what he told me. I 11 fixed the camera system, and I'm here to finish 12 it up. 13 MR. : Because when you - when 14 we spoke to you last, you had mentioned that 15 you approached him and said, you told me you 16 were going to fix this, and you said, and then 17 he told you at that time, yeah, I came in here 18 today -- 19 MS. : Right. 20 MR. : -- to do it. 21 MS. : Right. So, I was under the 22 assumption he started on the 9th, and he still 23 had - whatever he had left to do on the 10th, 24 and I assume that that's what he was there to 25 do. EFTA00117281  17 1 MR. : Okay. So, not that he 2 fixed it on the 9th, but he started to fix it 3 on the 9th? 4 MS. : Right. I feel like he 5 started to fix it on the 9th, and he was there 6 to finish up, because then he was actually on 7 overtime in an attempt to, if I'm correct. 8 MR. : Okay. 9 MS. : So, I assumed that he started 10 fixing it, and he was there to attempt to 11 finish it up. 12 MR. : So, should that last 13 sentence then read, he began fixing it on the 14 9th? Instead of he fixed it on the 9th? 15 MS. : It should, but again, I can't 16 recall. I don't want to say, you know, because 17 he told me he fixed the cameras. So, fixing to 18 me, I don't know the camera system. So -- 19 MR. : So, on the 9th, when they 20 knew that they couldn't actually get video, he 21 actually said, I did fix it yesterday? 22 MS. : No. On the 9th. I mean, 23 sorry, on the 10th. 24 MR. : That's what I mean, on 25 the 10th. EFTA00117282  18 1 MS. : When we arrived, and we 2 realized that there was no video over the 9th. 3 That's when he stated, I did overtime, I fixed 4 it yesterday. And then, we would, me and him 5 were having a conversation that it's no video. 6 You can't go back. And his thing was, I'm here 7 to finish up what I started yesterday. 8 MR. : Huh. 9 MS. : So, I don't 10 MR. : Was it -- 11 MS. -- know what he fixed, 12 because fixing to - I'm sorry - fixing can be 13 he bought all of the cameras back up, so the 14 cameras are online, but I don't know if they 15 were online to record, if that makes any sense. 16 MR. : And so, it's hard for us 17 to understand because if he's saying he fixed 18 it yesterday, and he's here to finish it today, 19 that sounds like it means he started fixing it 20 yesterday, and he's -- 21 MS. : Right. 22 MR. : -- but what his words 23 were, he fixed it yesterday? 24 MS. : His words was, I fixed it 25 yesterday, and I'm here to finish up today. EFTA00117283  19 1 Now, I don't know what the finish up part for 2 today was, to be honest with you. I'm assuming 3 the finishing up part was the to get them to 4 record, because they were blacked out. 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MS. : Most of the cameras were 7 blacked out. 8 MR. : Oh, so, they were 9 actually blacked out? So -- 10 MS. : It was some cameras that were 11 blacked out where it was no screen at all. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MR. : This was on August 8th? 14 MS. : On August 8th. 15 MR. : Okay. So, he actually 16 got the cameras to not be blacked out anymore, 17 so meaning, he fixed the cameras that were 18 blacked out, and on the 10th, he was going to 19 get them to start recording? 20 MS. : That's what I assume. 21 MR. : Okay. 22 MS. : It's just an assumption 23 because when I got there the 10th, I didn't 24 physically go to see if the black out cameras 25 was back online. EFTA00117284  20 1 MR. : All right. So, when you 2 say fixed in that, you're talking about, he got 3 the cameras back up and running, but the 4 recording part was going to be fixed on the 5 10th? 6 MS. : That's my assumption. 7 MR. : Okay. 8 MS. : It's just an assumption. 9 Because I really can't say what he did. I can 10 only say -- 11 MR. : Well, it -- 12 MS. : -- what he said. 13 MR. -: -- if he said to you, on 14 the 10th, I fixed them yesterday, did you ask 15 him then, well, then, why can't we get the 16 recordings? 17 MS. : I didn't. 18 MR. : No? 19 MS. : I didn't. 20 MR. : Okay. 21 MS. : Hmm-mm. 22 MR. : But now, your assumption 23 is, he fixed the cameras to get them back up 24 and running, and on the 10th, he was going to 25 fix the recording part. EFTA00117285  21 1 MS. : He was there to finish 2 whatever that fixing was, and I'm assuming that 3 it was the recording part because they still 4 weren't recording on the 10th. 5 MR. : Okay. But that was an 6 assumption on your end? 7 MS. : That was just an assumption 8 on my end. 9 MR. : And you didn't ask him 10 anything further on that? 11 MS. : I didn't ask him anything 12 else. 13 MR. : Okay. Sorry. 14 MS. : No, I didn't. 15 MR. : Go ahead. 16 MR. : Do you recall having a 17 conversation with him on the 10th about him not 18 having access to the communication room? 19 MS. : No. 20 MR. : On the 9th. Him not being 21 able to access the room because there was no 22 one there to open the door for him? 23 MS. No. No. And he would be 24 able to have access to the room because all of 25 the keys are located in the control center. EFTA00117286  22 1 MR. : But the center control would 2 be locked up, right? 3 MS. : The control center, they 4 would - my keys would have been locked behind, 5 like, an emergency glass. But he's accessed my 6 keys in the past to fix the cameras. 7 MR. : How would he access them? 8 MS. : He would get permission from 9 the captain to get my keys because that's who 10 has to authorize the keys. 11 MR. : And he would go to the 12 captain, and the captain would authorize it, 13 and he could just take the keys? 14 MS. : I would hope so 15 MR. : Mm-hmm. 16 MS. : -- that he would get 17 authorization, but he's been there late nights 18 when there has been nobody in SIS, fixing the 19 cameras. 20 MR. : And you recall specific 21 situations where the captain has authorized him 22 to take your keys and go into the room? 23 MS. : I can't say I was present 24 when he authorized him to take the keys. I'm 25 not going to say that I was present. But -- EFTA00117287  23 1 MR. : But you recall -- 2 MS. : I recall times when I told 3 the captain, hey, is going to stay late 4 because the camera system is not working, and 5 the captain say, okay, I'll be here. And he 6 would be and have access to that room. 7 MR. : Does that mean was 8 given the keys, or the captain would go in and 9 open the door for him? 10 MS. : That, I'm not sure. 11 MR. : Okay. 12 MS. : That, I'm not sure. 13 MR. : So, do you remember 14 around, approximately, what time it was on 15 August 8th that you learned that the cameras 16 were down? 17 MS. : It was late in the afternoon. 18 MR. : And you're positive it 19 was late in the afternoon? 20 MS. : It was in the afternoon. 21 MR. : And when you were 22 determining that these cameras were down, you 23 actually saw that they were -- because this is 24 the first we're hearing that there were blacked 25 out cameras, all along we've been told they EFTA00117288  24 1 were up, they just weren't recording, so there 2 was no way to tell that they were 3 MS. : No. You -- 4 MR. : -- down. 5 MS. : -- you had some cameras that 6 were offline completely, with an X, I don't 7 know if you've ever seen a camera system. 8 MR. : So, was it still review, 9 videoing? Like, could you see it, but there 10 was this X on it, or was it just all black? 11 MS. : No. You couldn't see. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MS. : You couldn't see. 14 MR. : And you're positive 15 MR. : So, seeing -. 16 MR. : -- about that? 17 MS. : I'm positive. 18 MR. : So -. 19 MR. : Okay. And then, so, 20 you're saying, and you're positive that it 21 happened late in the afternoon on August 8th? 22 MS. : Yes. 23 MR. : Because Captain 24 left early that day for a appointment 25 on the 8th. So, that goes back to, are you EFTA00117289  25 1 sure you told him on the 8th? Because he 2 wasn't there. 3 MS. : No. I spoke to Captain 4 about the cameras because he asked me, 5 was I going to fix the cameras? I know it 6 definitely was after the lunch, the lunch 7 break. So, between - it was afternoon time - 8 between 12:00, 1:00. 9 MR. : All right. So, when you 10 say late afternoon, before, you're now thinking 11 it was actually early afternoon? 12 MS. : Well, that's late afternoon 13 for me when I get it -- 14 MR. : All right. 15 MS. : -- because I get in 5:00 in 16 the morning. So -- 17 MR. : Okay. 18 MS. -- I'm sorry. But it 19 definitely was somewhere after the inmates' 20 lunch. Between 12:00, 12:00 noon, I want to 21 say between 12:00 and 2:00. In that timeframe. 22 MR. : Okay. 23 MS. : I can't tell you exactly the 24 time. But it definitely was before I went 25 home. EFTA00117290  26 1 MR. : Okay. So, you're 2 positive they were blacked out, you're positive 3 you told Captain 4 MS. : Yes. 5 MR. : Sorry. Go ahead, 6 MR. : How many screens would you 7 think were blacked out? 8 MS. : I don't even want to guess 9 because it was a lot of cameras up there, but 10 it was a good many. I know the housing units 11 were recording. The blacked-out cameras, it 12 was a lot of the corridors where we buzzed the 13 doors, and we opened, a lot of the corridors 14 were out. I do remember that. I do remember 15 the units were up. The housing units were up. 16 MR. : So, let's talk about that for 17 a second. I know it's important for the, how 18 important is it for the cameras to be working? 19 MS. : Very. 20 MR. : Now, we have two situations. 21 One is, the camera feed not working, which 22 would mean being able to view the cameras live. 23 And second is the actual recordings not 24 working. 25 MS. : Okay. EFTA00117291  27 1 MR. : So, how important is it for 2 the camera feed to be working at all times? 3 MS. : Very. 4 MR. : Compared - I know, let's 5 talk, separate that out from the actual 6 recordings working. How often do people go in 7 and view the live feeds? 8 MS. : It's my - this is just, 9 again, I would say it should have been daily 10 because since I've been at MCC New York, normal 11 practice was that the communication shop came 12 up every morning, went into that area where, I 13 don't know, like, the motherboard was at. 14 And they checked it. So, that's what I've 15 always was used to happening. And they will 16 say, hey, you got some cameras down, or A, B, 17 C, and D, because SIS uses the cameras a lot. 18 You know? 19 We going back for video. We looking for 20 fights. Like, you know, they're up on our 21 desks sometimes who we're just seeing who's 22 doing what. So, I would say daily that they 23 definitely should be monitored. 24 MR. : Okay. And if the camera 25 feeds were not working, I understand the EFTA00117292  28 1 recorder is not, that the recording is not 2 there. And we might have spoken about this in 3 the past, but should have gone home for 4 the day, or should the recordings, the feeds 5 been fixed immediately? 6 MS. : I kind of don't know the 7 process of fixing the feeds because I know it 8 was times he said he had to order new cameras. 9 So, I don't know if they were fixable where he 10 had to order new cameras, and had to wait for 11 cameras to come in. 12 So, I don't even, I don't even know, 13 honestly, if he would have been able to fix 14 those cameras that was out, or if he needed to 15 order new cameras to fix those cameras that was 16 out. 17 MR. : You mentioned there were 18 quite a few feeds out, right? 19 MS. : Yes. 20 MR. : Do you think it was possible 21 that he came in, he told you on the 10th that 22 he came in on the 9th and he fixed them. Is it 23 possible that he replaced all those cameras by 24 the 9th? 25 MS. : Oh, I don't know. EFTA00117293  29 1 MR. : Okay. Okay. 2 MS. : I don't know. 3 MR. : Any other follow up on that? 4 MR. : No. I mean, I don't 5 think he was replacing cameras. Are you 6 talking about, like, hard drives that go with 7 the cameras? 8 MR. : I think when she said about 9 the live feed -- 10 MR. : Yeah, yeah. 11 MR. : -- she meant in order to see 12 the live feed, he would have to replace some of 13 the cameras. 14 MR. : So, you think he actually 15 replaced the cameras -- 16 MS. : I don't know -- 17 MR. : -- or something? 18 MS. -- if he would have to 19 replace them, but I know it was instances that 20 he would say, oh, I have to order new cameras. 21 So, I assume that those cameras are broke, and 22 they need to be replaced. 23 MR. : Okay. Okay. So, on the 24 8th, though, you knew that there was actually 25 two problems. One, that they were blacked out; EFTA00117294  30 1 and two, that they weren't recording. 2 MS. : Yes. 3 MR. : And the ones that weren't 4 recording, were they the same ones that were blacked out? 6 MS. : Nothing was recording. At 7 all. 8 MR. : Nothing. You couldn't 9 find anything recording? 10 MS. : No. I couldn't. 11 MR. : Because our understanding 12 was half of the cameras were recording and half 13 of them weren't. Just the ones you checked 14 weren't recording. 15 MS. : Just the ones I checked. And 16 normally, that would be the housing areas will 17 be where I'll target because that's where the 18 inmates at, and that's where 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MS. unfortunately, the 21 incidents usually are. 22 MR. : And what - you said prior 23 - I just want to make sure we're clear - with 24 the ones that were blacked out were not the 25 housing units? EFTA00117295  31 1 MS. : No. I don't recall any 2 housing units being blocked out. 3 MR. : But the housing units 4 were the ones that weren't recording? 5 MS. : Right. I know they weren't 6 recording. 7 MR. : So, there was just a 8 problem with basically all of the cameras that 9 you knew of. 10 MS. : It seemed that way to me now. 11 Yes. 12 MR. : And did you know, did you 13 provide that information to either AW or 14 Captain 15 MS. : No. Not about the whole 16 system because I kind of don't know how it 17 works. So, I said to hey, you got a 18 lot of areas that's blacked out. With a red X. 19 MR. : Okay. And then, so, 20 knowing all that information, what is it that 21 you told Captain 22 MS. : I just told him that I 23 couldn't get any - I couldn't go back. They 24 weren't recording. 25 MR. : Okay. EFTA00117296  32 1 MS. : I didn't say the whole 2 institution is not recording because I didn't 3 know. 4 MR. : Okay. 5 MS. : It's just the cameras that I 6 actually checked. 7 MR. : Okay. And did you tell 8 him if it was, like, more than one, though? Or 9 did you just say, hey, I can't get anything 10 recording, is coming to fix it? 11 MS. : I can't recall saying more 12 than one. 13 MR. : Okay. 14 MS. : I can't recall using those 15 words. 16 MR. : All right. And what 17 about AW ? Did you, then, fill her in 18 after you were reviewing the one camera? 19 MS. : No. No. She left. 20 MR. : She left -- 21 MS. : Yeah. 22 MR. : -- so, and you never 23 talked to her 24 MS. : No. 25 MR. : -- about it again. EFTA00117297  33 1 MS. : Hmm-mm. 2 MR. : All right. And did she 3 know the cameras were down, or did she just 4 know that you were having a problem rewinding? 5 MS. : I think she - to be honest 6 with you - she only knew that I had a problem 7 because I couldn't playback that one unit. 8 MR. : Okay. 9 MS. : Because that's the unit that 10 we were looking at, which were the cadre units, 11 that they go home and go different places. 12 Because after we couldn't find that inmate, she 13 kind of just left. 14 MR. : Okay. And have you 15 spoken with AW since we last spoke? 16 MS. : No. 17 MR. : No? 18 MS. : No. 19 MR. : So, you didn't talk about 20 this matter with her? 21 MS. : No. i just received, I want 22 to say an email, or it might have been - I 23 can't even say it was after or before, but I 24 did receive notification from her that she CC'd 25 me on an email about my documentation because EFTA00117298  34 1 these were my documents that were in her 2 office. 3 So, she said, hey, I just want to let you 4 know that I gave them to the warden, whoever 5 the warden was at that time, that was acting. 6 And he stated he would give them to legal. 7 MR. : Okay. 8 MS. : And that was it. 9 MR. : And that's regarding your 10 memo that we have right here? 11 MS. : All of my documents. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MS. : Yeah. 14 MR. : All right. 15 MS. : This would have been included 16 -- 17 MR. : And what about -- 18 MS. : -- in a pile of documents. 19 MR. and what about Captain 20 Have you spoken with him since we last 21 spoke? 22 MS. : No. 23 MR. : Not at all? 24 MS. : I haven't seen him. 25 MR. : Okay. EFTA00117299  35 1 MR. : Do you recall the video that 2 you were trying to pull up on August 8th? When 3 you were trying to rewind. Were you trying to 4 rewind the video for just that day, or from a previous day? 6 MS. : I was trying to go back to 7 that day, at that time -- 8 MR. : So, for August 8th. 9 MS. -- yes. 10 MR. : Not August 7th, 6th, or 11 anything like that. 12 MS. : No. 13 MR. : Okay. 14 MS. : No. 15 MR. : And you said it was 5- 16 South? 17 MS. : It was 5 -. It was, I think 18 we were looking at 5-South and the 5-South 19 sally port. That may be a little foreign. 20 It's like the hallway. 21 MR. : Yeah, sure. 22 MS. : in between the two doors. 23 MR. : That's where the elevator is. 24 MR. : And what -. 25 MS. : Right. EFTA00117300  36 1 MR. : And what is 5-South? 2 MS. : 5-South was the cadre unit. 3 MR. : The cadre unit. 4 MS. : Yes. 5 MR. : All right. And can you 6 just explain, briefly, what does the cadre unit 7 mean? 8 MS. : The cadre units are inmates 9 that was designated to MCC New York. So, they 10 was very in custody inmates, out custody 11 inmates, community custody inmates, but their 12 designation was to MCC New York. 13 MR. : So, does that mean 14 general population, or is it something 15 different than general population? 16 MS. : No. They're general 17 population. 18 MR. : Okay. 19 MS. : Yes. They call them the work 20 cadres. So, they work around the building, in 21 different departments. 22 MR. : So, I'm going to clarify that 23 a little bit. A majority of MCC New York, are 24 the inmates awaiting trial? 25 MS. : Yes. Pre-trial. EFTA00117301  37 1 MR. : Pre-trial. Cadre unit, are 2 those inmates already sentenced? 3 MS. : Yes. 4 MR. : So, these are post-sentence 5 inmates. They are assigned to, already 6 sentenced, and they're -- 7 MS. : Okay. Assigned to MCC New 8 York. 9 MR. : -- yeah. And now, these 10 cadre inmates, do they have any special 11 privileges? 12 MS. : I wouldn't say special 13 privileges, but some do. Meaning, they can 14 work. 15 MR. : Work. And what kind of work 16 do they do? 17 MS. : You have some on the electric 18 detail. Some on the plumbing detail. You have 19 the outside detail, which was the Dayton Manor 20 detail. 21 MR. : So, they get to move around a 22 little bit? 23 MS. : They move around. 24 MR. : Okay. 25 MR. : Are they known as EFTA00117302  38 1 orderlies? 2 MS. : Well, any inmate that work, 3 even pre-trial inmates who have a job is known 4 as orderlies. 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MR. : But cadres, do they get to 7 leave the facility? 8 MS. : Some do. 9 MR. : Some. They get to leave MCC, 10 some work as town drivers? 11 MS. : Right. 12 MR. : They go to the warehouse. 13 Come back. 14 MS. : Yes. 15 MR. : Okay. 16 MS. : Some do. Yes. 17 MR. : So, they are, like, low 18 risk inmates? 19 MS. : They're supposed to be, yes. 20 MR. : Okay. 21 MS. : Yes. 22 MR. : But these are sentenced 23 inmates that have permanent - at that point, 24 they were assigned to MCC. 25 MS. : Yes. EFTA00117303  39 1 MR. : Okay. 2 MR. : Okay. 3 MR. : Anything else on -? 4 MR. : I guess the last question 5 I would say is, do you know what it was you 6 were trying to watch? Like, what happened that 7 caused you to try to watch the 5-South video? 8 MS. : I do. I can't recall the 9 inmate's name. We were looking for him because 10 we suspected that he was involved with an 11 incident that OIG Agent (Phonetic Sp. 12 *00:28:00) was looking into, and myself. 13 So, this inmate name kept coming up. I 14 can't remember if it was phones or, you know, 15 narcotics. I can't remember. But his name 16 kept coming up. And me and stated, 17 okay, we're going to talk to this inmate 18 together, to see if he had any role in what we 19 were looking at. 20 And me and talked, then I said, this, 21 , this inmate got released. And that's 22 what made me go and try to see exactly when he 23 got released, you know, let me track what time 24 he got released, because me and had even 25 spoke about going to - if he got released to EFTA00117304  40 1 the halfway house - we were going to go to the 2 halfway house and speak to him. 3 MR. : Okay. 4 MR. : Okay. I'm going to move on. 5 MR. : Go ahead. 6 MR. : I have a document here. 7 MS. : Yeah. 8 MR. : This states, for the record, 9 number 104, timestamp 9:00, August 2019. Can 10 you let us know what we're looking at? 11 MS. : I don't know what this is. 12 So, this was provided by , from the com 13 shop. 14 MR. : Okay. So, provided 15 this to who? 16 MS. : To me. 17 MR. : To you? 18 MS. : And I turned this over to OIG 19 because they requested the call. The call 20 logs. 21 MR. : So, is that -- 22 MS. : So, this is the call log. 23 But this is foreign except for the date and the 24 end date. 25 MR. : So, you wouldn't understand, EFTA00117305  41 1 you wouldn't know what this is about? 2 MS. : I just know it's a call log. 3 MR. : Okay. 4 MS. : Because this is what he gave 5 me. So, I'm assuming this is the date somebody 6 made a call. Again, the end and time. What 7 time the other person answered. Just from 8 looking up here, at the top of it. Everything 9 down here, I don't know. 10 MR. : Now, did give that to 11 you based on a request that you asked him for? 12 Did you ask him for a call, a specific call 13 log? 14 MS. : I want to -. 15 MR. : Well, read the date and 16 time, and then 17 MR. : So -- 18 MR. : -- maybe that will help. 19 MR. : -- the start date on this is 20 August 9th. 21 MS. : Mm-hmm. 22 MR. : 2019. The answer date is 23 August 9th, 2019. 24 MS. Mm-hmm. 25 MR. : And the end date is August EFTA00117306  42 1 9th, 2019. So, it's the same date, right? And 2 the start time is 18:58:03. So, that means 3 6:58 p.m. 4 MS. : Okay. 5 MR. : The answer time is 6:58:22. 6 So, that means 7 MS. : Mm-hmm. 8 MR. : -- 6:58 p.m. And the end 9 time is 19:19. That's 7:59 p.m. 10 MS. : Okay. Yeah. 11 MR. : So, the call, it seems that 12 it lasted about 21 minutes. 13 MS. : About 20 minutes. Yeah. 14 Again, whatever call logs that I asked him for 15 was call logs that was asked from OIG of me, 16 hey, I need the call log. They asked for it. 17 I know they asked for the Special Housing 18 Units. How many phones were up there. And -- 19 MR. : And by looking at that, 20 are you able to tell if that was a Special 21 Housing Unit call? 22 MS. : I don't know. 23 MR. : Does it show anything on 24 there, 25 MR. : There is a caller station, EFTA00117307  43 1 there is numbers and everything, but it doesn't 2 state specifically. 3 MR. : Okay. Do you know 4 anybody that made a call from the MCC on August 5 9th, 2019, at approximately 7:00 p.m. that 6 would be of interest for people that were 7 investigating? 8 MS. : I don't know. 9 MR. : So, do you know anything 10 about Epstein calling and placing a telephone 11 call from the SHU on August 9th, 2