Peter Brimelow on the Invasion of America, Who’s Behind It, and How Long Until Total Collapse

[00:00:04] Peter Brllo, thank you so much for doing [00:00:05] this. I thought of you last week when I [00:00:08] read this. I don't know how much you [00:00:09] follow X, uh, but there were a couple [00:00:12] exchanges that suggested to me that [00:00:14] things are changing very very fast. [00:00:16] Okay, so here's here's one. This is a [00:00:19] this is a tweet from last week, less [00:00:21] than a week ago, from a guy from [00:00:23] basically an anonymous account, and I'm [00:00:25] quoting, "If white men become a [00:00:27] minority, we will be slaughtered." [00:00:29] Remember, if non-whites openly hate [00:00:31] white men while white men hold a [00:00:32] collective majority, then they will be a [00:00:35] thousand times more hostile and cruel [00:00:37] when they're a majority over whites. [00:00:39] White solidarity is the only way to [00:00:41] survive. Okay, that's on the internet. [00:00:44] Elon Musk retweets it and says 100%. [00:00:48] And then Elon Musk writes this. [00:00:52] If current trends continue, whites will [00:00:54] go from being a small minority of the [00:00:55] world population today to virtually [00:00:58] extinct. [00:01:02] All of that, in my opinion, is obviously [00:01:04] true. Um, and I think most people know [00:01:07] it, but I read that I thought, here's [00:01:10] the world's richest man who owns this [00:01:11] platform and a lot of other things [00:01:14] saying this. [00:01:16] And Peter Brimlo, who I know, who's a [00:01:18] thoroughly decent person, has had his [00:01:20] life turned upside down and basically [00:01:21] been destroyed in some ways, [00:01:23] professionally anyway, for saying things [00:01:25] that are way more restrained for that [00:01:27] than that. So, I have to ask you what it [00:01:30] feels like to see that. Uh, it feels [00:01:34] kind of tingly on the one hand. tingly. [00:01:37] I'm happy that uh that the the debate [00:01:40] has moved in that direction and the [00:01:41] things that we were talking about 25 [00:01:44] years ago on vair.com which is was my [00:01:46] website uh my birthw citizenship and so [00:01:49] on are now in the public debate. On the [00:01:51] other hand, you know, we've been ruined [00:01:53] and uh and we're facing personal ruin of [00:01:56] course because of this attack on us by [00:01:57] the New York Attorney General Leticia [00:02:00] James. As nobody knows who I am, Tucker, [00:02:02] I should say that you know I'm a long [00:02:04] time spent of my accent. I've been here [00:02:05] for 55 years and I'm a longtime [00:02:07] financial journalist. I work for Forbes [00:02:09] and and uh and and Fortune and Barons [00:02:12] and so on and uh and I work for National [00:02:15] Review. I wrote for National Review a [00:02:16] lot and I wrote an a piece on [00:02:18] immigration in 1992 saying time to [00:02:20] rethink immigration that sometimes [00:02:22] credit with kicking off the the modern [00:02:25] debate. Uh and there was a brief civil [00:02:27] war within the conservative movement at [00:02:29] that point which we lost and Buckley uh [00:02:31] stabbed us in the back and purged the [00:02:33] magazine of immigration patriots and uh [00:02:36] for the next while um you know the war [00:02:38] journal editorial page was absolutely [00:02:40] dominant and and and going on about the [00:02:42] need for amnesty and there was no way to [00:02:44] um to combat it. So I set up a website [00:02:47] which I named var.com after Virginia [00:02:50] Dare the first uh the first English [00:02:52] child not white shad as they always say [00:02:54] uh born in the new world and over a [00:02:57] period of about 25 years we built up [00:02:59] into quite a force until uh about 2 [00:03:01] years ago. It was destroyed by the New [00:03:03] York Attorney General Tisha James who [00:03:04] just basically subpoenaed subpoenaed us [00:03:06] to death and has in fact now uh uh sued [00:03:10] us personally and and uh and in as in [00:03:13] the foundation and through the [00:03:14] foundation. So, uh, we're a bit like [00:03:17] General Flynn. You know, no middle- [00:03:18] class family can stand up to this. Uh, [00:03:20] General Flynn had to sell his house and [00:03:22] and we're going to face be driven into [00:03:24] personal bankruptcy. I guess [00:03:27] it's a horrifying story. Um, I've kept a [00:03:30] breast of it through your wife who who [00:03:32] text me is a wonderful person. Um, and I [00:03:35] know that you're a man of great personal [00:03:36] decency and restraint and basically [00:03:40] a great citizen and the kind of [00:03:42] immigrant we need and and I'm grateful [00:03:44] to have. So the whole thing is is [00:03:46] shocking and so revealing. But I'd like [00:03:48] if you don't mind to start closer to the [00:03:50] beginning of this story with your [00:03:53] experience at National Review 1992. You [00:03:56] said you wrote this piece saying time to [00:03:57] rethink immigration, which I remember [00:04:00] well. At the time, National Review [00:04:01] really was a forum for conservatives to [00:04:04] think through what it meant to be [00:04:05] conservative. So that was a significant [00:04:08] uh piece at the time. And then you said [00:04:11] Bill Buckley, the then editor William F. [00:04:13] Buckley Jr. stabbed you in the back. Can [00:04:16] you can you tell a story? What what [00:04:18] happened exactly? [00:04:19] >> Oh, sure. Uh, I was never on staff at [00:04:21] National, but I was what they called a [00:04:23] senior editor and I roll for it a lot. [00:04:25] And and in 992, I wrote this very long [00:04:27] cover story. It's about 14,000 words. [00:04:31] Bill had retired as the editor then. He [00:04:33] was just circling around in the [00:04:34] background. Uh but uh uh the then editor [00:04:38] John Sullivan ran with went with this [00:04:39] story and for about 5 years we basically [00:04:42] directly challenged the uh the the [00:04:45] official conservative line which was [00:04:46] that immigration is good, more [00:04:48] immigration is better, illegal [00:04:50] immigration is very good. That's what [00:04:51] the Wall Street Journal said and still [00:04:54] saying as far as I can tell. [00:04:55] >> Yes. Uh um uh and then at the end of 5 [00:04:59] years in 97 uh Bill just just abruptly [00:05:02] without any warning at all fired O [00:05:03] Sullivan and pur purge the magazine of [00:05:06] uh of immigration patriots and basically [00:05:08] told us to shut up about it told them [00:05:10] all to shut up about immigration which [00:05:11] of course they all eagerly did. He put [00:05:13] the Washington bureau in charge, Rich [00:05:15] Lowry and Bonuru and so on. And so for [00:05:18] them for for for two or three years, you [00:05:20] know, you couldn't get even the basic [00:05:22] facts about immigration out out the [00:05:24] public. But then the internet came along [00:05:26] and and uh um you know, rescued us and I [00:05:30] started va.com. May I ask you to pause [00:05:32] and and explain why that happened? Why [00:05:34] do you think Bill Buckley, who was [00:05:36] retired and letting Jonno Sullivan run [00:05:38] it, [00:05:39] >> another Brit I think? [00:05:40] >> Yes, indeed. um who now lives in [00:05:42] Budapest. [00:05:45] Why do you think that he stepped back in [00:05:48] from retirement to shut down that [00:05:50] conversation specifically? [00:05:52] >> Well, of course, I've had 20 odd years [00:05:54] to think about that. And the answer is [00:05:56] over the time my ad has evolved. At the [00:05:58] thought at the time, I thought he was he [00:06:00] was just jealous. This is actually a [00:06:02] thing you see I was a financial [00:06:03] journalist for a long time. It's a thing [00:06:04] you see often in the corporate world. uh [00:06:07] entrepreneurs will come back and uh uh [00:06:10] purge the fire the managers that they [00:06:12] put in to replace themselves out of [00:06:14] sheer jealousy. [00:06:15] >> I think the congressional Republicans [00:06:17] hated us talking about immigration [00:06:18] because it upsets the donors [00:06:21] >> and I think that was in influential with [00:06:23] Bill. He liked being uh lionized by the [00:06:26] um then then Republican majority in the [00:06:28] House. Uh and I I think [00:06:31] >> so the Republican leadership didn't like [00:06:33] it. N King Gingrich, etc. [00:06:36] >> who was Ascendant, came in in 94 to much [00:06:39] much fanfare, achieved not a lot, but um [00:06:43] they're the ones who pressured Bill [00:06:45] Buckley. You believe? [00:06:46] >> I I think that was true. But I also [00:06:48] think that the the the Neocons in New [00:06:51] York hated it, hated the line. And and [00:06:53] uh Bill was very very um leery of [00:06:56] offending the neoconservatives, people [00:06:58] like Norman Porus and so on. And I think [00:07:01] they pressured him to uh to uh I mean I [00:07:04] know they pressured him to get rid of [00:07:05] rid of John. Uh [00:07:07] >> now why would they care? Oh, because um [00:07:11] at that point the nail conservatives who [00:07:13] predominately Jewish faction, they had [00:07:15] this sort of Ellis Island view of uh of [00:07:18] America uh they wanted to uh that [00:07:22] extremely frightened of uh uh the white [00:07:24] majority in America becoming [00:07:26] self-conscious because they feel as Jews [00:07:28] that they will leave them out in the [00:07:30] cold. Um, [00:07:33] >> despite the fact there's never been any [00:07:35] real anti-semitic movement in the United [00:07:37] States, there's no evidence that white [00:07:40] people becoming aware of the fact that [00:07:42] they're white is a threat to Jews. I [00:07:44] don't know where that comes from, [00:07:45] >> right? Uh, and and uh I actually there's [00:07:50] a certain sort of jealousy there. You [00:07:51] know, they they didn't like I mean, if [00:07:53] you look at ideas on the on the right uh [00:07:55] in the recent years, a lot of them [00:07:56] originated out of neoonservatism, but [00:07:58] here was a non-neervive faction. We [00:08:00] would have we would have then described [00:08:01] ourselves as paleoconservatives coming [00:08:03] up with a whole idea and a whole issue [00:08:06] because the immigration was completely [00:08:08] dormant from from uh 1968 when the heart [00:08:11] seller act kicked in until the early '9s [00:08:13] and there was no discussion of it at [00:08:15] all. I actually went through national [00:08:16] reviews archives. I found that they [00:08:17] hadn't discussed immigration at all [00:08:19] between between the passage of uh the 65 [00:08:22] act and until the early '9s. People [00:08:24] simply didn't realize what was going on. [00:08:25] >> What why [00:08:27] I think there are a couple of reasons. [00:08:29] uh one is that you know when when there [00:08:32] was a pause in immigration from the 20 [00:08:34] from 1924 [00:08:36] to about 1968 so a whole generation grew [00:08:38] up when there was essentially no [00:08:40] immigration at all into the US and and [00:08:43] uh you know uh and so they it just [00:08:45] wasn't an issue to them and you know [00:08:47] what happens with uh it's like an [00:08:49] academic life we have an academic theory [00:08:51] it's not that it conquers the other [00:08:53] theories by being better and and better [00:08:56] arguments it's just that the people with [00:08:57] all the earlier theories die off and [00:08:59] they replaced our younger and that's [00:09:01] true for politicians too. a whole [00:09:03] generation of of politicians had never [00:09:05] thought about this issue and I include [00:09:07] Ronald Reagan in that. I mean I mean it [00:09:09] simply wasn't an issue when he was [00:09:10] growing up and that's why he was haunted [00:09:13] by this um the amnesty in 1986. He [00:09:16] actually genuinely thought that the [00:09:17] would the the ruling the permanent [00:09:20] government would exchange amnesty for [00:09:22] serious enforcement whereas in fact he [00:09:24] just took took the amnesty and didn't [00:09:26] didn't enforce the law against illegal [00:09:28] immigration at all. Christmas feels like [00:09:31] just yesterday, but in fact, it's [00:09:33] already time to think about Lent. Lent. [00:09:35] Lent is a great chance to step back, [00:09:38] examine our lives, and decide whether or [00:09:40] not we're headed somewhere worth going. [00:09:43] This Lent, we strongly recommend the [00:09:45] world's top number one prayer app. It's [00:09:48] called Hallow. Its Lent prayer challenge [00:09:51] starts February 18th. It's called Pray [00:09:53] 40, The Return. Transformation does not [00:09:56] start with improvement. [00:09:58] No, transformation starts with [00:10:01] repentance, the courage to admit that [00:10:03] you are lost and change direction. Pray [00:10:06] 40 forces you to confront that [00:10:08] responsibility, forgiveness, and what it [00:10:11] means to truly repent and live a life of [00:10:13] meaning by following Jesus. Every day, [00:10:17] enjoy simple, deliberate prayer. No [00:10:20] spectacle, no performance, just silence, [00:10:22] honesty, and one small step toward [00:10:25] renewal. This is not about fixing your [00:10:27] life overnight. It's about beginning the [00:10:30] journey home. Pray40, the return starts [00:10:33] Wednesday, February 18th and runs right [00:10:35] through Easter. Download Hallow for free [00:10:38] at hallow.com/tucker. [00:10:40] >> But I'm I'm a little bit fixated on [00:10:43] William McBuckley because he was such a [00:10:47] dominant force. [00:10:48] >> Let me just back up again. What I think [00:10:50] now is I think looking nice review now [00:10:53] uh uh it's obviously donor driven. It's [00:10:56] it's of course and and and we weren't [00:10:58] aware of that in the '9s and we w I [00:11:01] wasn't even aware I didn't think about [00:11:02] the donor role in politics really until [00:11:04] some years later than that. We we [00:11:06] thought that people just got up and and [00:11:08] argued and you just simply didn't [00:11:09] realize how dominant [00:11:12] how important the donors are. I think [00:11:13] now looking back at him particularly [00:11:14] given Bill was not as wealthy as he [00:11:18] wanted people to think and he depended [00:11:20] on National Review uh financially to a [00:11:22] considerable extent. It financed his [00:11:24] lifestyle to a considerable extent and I [00:11:26] think [00:11:27] >> but he depended on the magazine. [00:11:28] >> Yeah. Yeah. I I think that's [00:11:30] >> I think the rest of us thought the [00:11:31] magazine depended on him. [00:11:32] >> Yeah. That that's what he wanted you to [00:11:34] think. But in fact he did he did finance [00:11:36] his lifestyle to a considerable extent [00:11:38] and and uh [00:11:39] >> the winters in Shod and the sailing [00:11:41] across the Bermuda race and [00:11:44] >> I don't know how much but there there [00:11:46] was certainly quite a lot that that that [00:11:47] was deducted or or expense uh uh to to [00:11:50] to the magazine. In any case uh uh he he [00:11:54] just didn't want to disrupt the donor [00:11:56] flow and the more I think about that the [00:11:58] more I think that probably was the [00:11:59] reason. Interesting. So that's basically [00:12:02] a species of fraud. [00:12:06] >> Um [00:12:08] I don't I don't mean against the tax [00:12:09] code. I mean it's intellectual fraud. [00:12:11] It's you're making the case that you [00:12:13] believe these things because they are [00:12:15] true when in fact you're taking money to [00:12:18] say them. [00:12:19] >> I think Bill actually uh my experience [00:12:22] with Bill is that he actually was not [00:12:23] very interested in politics. when he [00:12:25] went to his uh his those dinners he used [00:12:28] to put on at on 73 73rd Street it was [00:12:31] very hard to get talk about politics he [00:12:33] was he was he was always wandering off [00:12:35] in in odd directions uh and you can see [00:12:38] that in the way he lived his life [00:12:39] laterally I mean writing these books and [00:12:41] so on he just he just basically didn't [00:12:42] do any serious thinking about politics [00:12:44] initially he was very I have a letter [00:12:46] from him actually saying how wonderful [00:12:47] my immigration story was [00:12:50] >> but and and uh really yes and and it was [00:12:53] you know I forget what he said but he [00:12:54] said it was beautifully organized and [00:12:56] and beautifully argued and and the tone [00:12:58] was perfect and that that sort of stuff. [00:13:01] He never admitted that he changed his [00:13:02] mind on immigration. He just he he just [00:13:04] said told them to stop covering it. Uh [00:13:07] but the official official line of the of [00:13:09] the magazine was that the immigration [00:13:11] was was questionable. They just didn't [00:13:12] do any journalism on it. But just how he [00:13:14] was about drug legalization. He he he [00:13:17] was officially in favor of drug [00:13:19] legalization, but he very rarely let the [00:13:20] magazine write about it. [00:13:22] >> Huh? why [00:13:25] >> uh uh I guess he was balancing a number [00:13:28] of a number of issues uh in the case of [00:13:30] immigration he you know I I think he's [00:13:32] done as immigration was a very [00:13:34] unfashionable subject in the [00:13:36] >> I remember [00:13:36] >> and and uh uh [00:13:41] I think we as we were talking earlier uh [00:13:44] I I was watching Ben Shapiro on on uh uh [00:13:47] um Megan Kelly [00:13:49] >> Megan Kelly yes uh and he was attacking [00:13:52] you for for some reason or other I [00:13:53] forget what and he was saying that uh [00:13:56] then he suddenly says but Tuck is good [00:13:57] on some things he's good in immigration [00:13:59] well as I understand that you you're [00:14:01] you're you're in the idea of immigration [00:14:02] moratorum and so on [00:14:04] >> of course [00:14:05] >> um this news to me that's what Ben [00:14:07] Shapiro thinks is good about immigration [00:14:09] I mean just about five or six years ago [00:14:11] in national review he called me a white [00:14:12] supremacist for basically for no other [00:14:15] reason than than than advocate [00:14:17] immigration reduction in those days if [00:14:19] you back in the early days if you if you [00:14:21] were I advocated immigration control, [00:14:25] you immediately suspect uh that you [00:14:27] immediately suspect of being [00:14:28] anti-semite, even though there's no [00:14:30] direct connection at all. And now [00:14:31] they've changed their mind on this. [00:14:32] They've fallen back. I mean, Norman, [00:14:34] before he died, I was I was very [00:14:35] friendly with Norman. He didn't talk to [00:14:37] me for the last 10 years of his life, [00:14:39] but he he he died just a few a few weeks [00:14:41] ago at the age of 95. But just before he [00:14:44] died, he gave an interview in which he [00:14:45] said he changed his mind on immigration. [00:14:47] He thought there was a limit to how much [00:14:48] immigration could could be absorbed. and [00:14:50] he credited John O the edge of national [00:14:52] view for helping change his mind. He [00:14:54] didn't he didn't mention me. [00:14:56] >> Why didn't he speak to you for the last [00:14:57] 10 years of his life? Well, I just I [00:15:01] think he just decided that that I was a [00:15:03] suspicious character. Uh and uh I [00:15:06] deviated on the immigration issue and [00:15:08] and he suspected um I had the habit of [00:15:11] calling the uh National Review the [00:15:13] Goldberg Review because at that stage [00:15:15] briefly it was dominated by John Jonah [00:15:17] Goldberg who I think is a complete fraud [00:15:18] and lightweight and of course was [00:15:20] absolutely boneheaded on the immigration [00:15:22] issue. [00:15:22] >> Well, he's certainly a lightweight. I I [00:15:24] it's hard to know what he believes or [00:15:26] doesn't, but he certainly I mean, if [00:15:29] Jonah Goldberg is like your intellectual [00:15:31] force, then you've been degraded. Well, [00:15:34] Norman actually emailed me and said, [00:15:36] "You've got to stop calling National [00:15:37] Review the Goldberg review because it [00:15:39] sounds anti-Semitic." Actually, my [00:15:41] understanding is that Goldberg is not is [00:15:43] not technically she's his mother was his [00:15:45] mother was a was a gentile. So, I [00:15:48] >> I knew her. She was a great person [00:15:49] actually. I replied I replied and said [00:15:51] that and he didn't get back but he just [00:15:53] gradually suspected more he suspected [00:15:55] more and more of thought crime. Norman [00:15:57] was an extremely passionate man. He he [00:15:59] didn't [00:16:01] so famously he didn't uh he didn't uh uh [00:16:06] he didn't socialize with with with with [00:16:07] with w with with opponents. [00:16:10] >> I miss him. I I I I really liked him. I [00:16:12] was sorry that [00:16:13] >> No, there was a lot about him that was [00:16:14] appealing. He was a man of great energy [00:16:16] and um I admired him in a lot of ways. [00:16:19] kind of repulsive in others, but but [00:16:22] certainly he was not standing still. He [00:16:23] was constantly in in motion. And I [00:16:26] >> and I actually owe his wife Mitch a lot [00:16:28] because she she was uh the chair thing [00:16:31] of the Philist [00:16:32] which is a conservative affinity group [00:16:34] and she invited me to speak on [00:16:36] immigration. Yes. In uh in I guess 2005 [00:16:40] and that's where I met my my first wife [00:16:42] had just died and that's where I met my [00:16:43] current wife Lydia who of course was [00:16:45] running uh uh the VA foundation with me. [00:16:47] She was the publisher of Vad.com. And [00:16:50] you've had her on, of course. [00:16:51] >> Oh, of course. And I'm a and I'm a fan. [00:16:53] She's a brave woman uh and a smart one. [00:16:56] May I ask what happened to your [00:16:58] relationship with Bill Buckley? [00:17:02] Um I uh when he fired John Sullivan, I [00:17:07] was the only one of the entire staff who [00:17:08] went in and asked, "Why did you fire [00:17:11] him?" Because [00:17:12] >> what? [00:17:13] >> Yeah. Well, the official line was John [00:17:15] had resigned to write a book. That was [00:17:17] because uh John was very popular with uh [00:17:20] with the national view uh base and the [00:17:23] immigration was was was um was very [00:17:26] popular and so he didn't want to admit [00:17:28] that he was dumping them both. Uh so he [00:17:30] got really ruffled cuz he wasn't used to [00:17:32] being challenged and and said [00:17:35] book and resign book and and and uh we [00:17:38] basically never really spoke to each [00:17:39] other after that. I mean uh uh um I was [00:17:43] constructively dismissed from national [00:17:44] view. I got a letter to tell me I was no [00:17:46] longer a senior editor, which was [00:17:47] actually very very important in uh in [00:17:50] the National Review Wool because it was [00:17:52] run like a fraternity and and uh if you [00:17:54] if you were senior, you were [00:17:55] automatically invited to all kinds of [00:17:57] events and so on and to his dinners and [00:17:59] all that kind of thing and and I never [00:18:02] wrote for it again. [00:18:04] >> How why did they dismiss you, do you [00:18:06] think? [00:18:06] >> Oh, well, I'm sure that the the [00:18:08] Washington bureau was always upset with [00:18:09] the immigration issue uh because it [00:18:11] embarrassed them. it it embarrassed them [00:18:14] in Washington cocktail parties, you [00:18:15] know, and and uh and he put the [00:18:17] Washington bureau in charge of the [00:18:18] magazine. So, I'm sure they were would [00:18:20] be happy to do it. And and uh uh uh and [00:18:24] they didn't want to write about [00:18:25] immigration. And I think also, you know, [00:18:28] mud sticks took you know, and and by [00:18:31] this constant whispering campaign of how [00:18:33] I I was a racist and anti-semite for [00:18:35] racing these issues, it sticks and and [00:18:37] it has stuck. So that uh uh you know [00:18:40] even though Ben Shapiro is now in favor [00:18:42] of of just talking about immigration, I [00:18:44] I don't see him apologizing to me. [00:18:48] >> No. Well, of course not. He doesn't care [00:18:49] about you at all or other other people [00:18:52] at all. Um [00:18:53] >> I had a really interesting experience [00:18:54] recently. We we Lydia and I were at a [00:18:57] ISI book event and I I bought Matthew [00:19:00] Carson's book. I mean I actually bought [00:19:01] it. I put down my my it's it's a rotten [00:19:04] awful book about about the conservative [00:19:06] movement. says that I was born in [00:19:07] Canada, which I obviously wasn't. Uh, [00:19:10] >> it's a silly. He's a silly. I mean, it's [00:19:12] this is Bill Crystal's son-in-law. [00:19:13] >> Bill Crystal Sunlight. The point I took [00:19:14] it up to him went I like to collect [00:19:16] inscribed books. In fact, I forgot to [00:19:18] bring your book. I'm sorry. But uh uh [00:19:21] and he wouldn't sign it. He he wouldn't [00:19:23] inscribe it. He said, "I have nothing to [00:19:25] say to you." And the really weird thing [00:19:27] about this is that [00:19:27] >> on what ground? I mean, I don't think [00:19:29] you've ever said an that I'm aware of an [00:19:31] anti-semitic thing in your life. I don't [00:19:33] think you're an anti-semite. [00:19:34] >> Well, Connett is a convert of course. So [00:19:36] he's probably very, you know, [00:19:39] particularly ardent. But but uh uh the [00:19:42] weird thing about this was that Corneti [00:19:43] had actually written some quite sensible [00:19:45] things on immigration, which is odd when [00:19:47] you think of who his father-in-law is. [00:19:49] But he said to your face, I won't [00:19:50] inscribe your book because I have [00:19:52] nothing to say to you. [00:19:53] >> Essentially, yes, that's right. That the [00:19:55] he wouldn't he he signed it, but he [00:19:57] wouldn't inscribe it. And then he had [00:19:58] nothing to say to you. [00:20:01] >> Wow. Yeah. You I mean [00:20:03] >> it's kind of surprising. We live out [00:20:04] there in in the eastern panhandle of [00:20:06] West Virginia and we don't have to face [00:20:07] this stuff. But I guess when you in DC [00:20:09] you faced it all the time. [00:20:10] >> Yeah. Well, I I I left. Um but I also [00:20:13] believe in forgiveness and that's kind [00:20:14] of the difference I think. I mean we're [00:20:16] commanded to believe in forgiveness and [00:20:17] to treat people as human beings. And [00:20:19] >> Norman didn't believe that. [00:20:20] >> No, I'm very aware of that. Very aware [00:20:23] of that. [00:20:24] >> It was a principal position with him. [00:20:25] >> Yeah, it's a principle but it's a it's a [00:20:28] satanic principle that you can't forgive [00:20:30] other people. That is you're not [00:20:31] forgiven if you don't. So that's my [00:20:32] view. [00:20:33] Um, wow. What a That's amazing. So, you [00:20:36] were just cast out. [00:20:37] >> Well, the thing is he'd already signed [00:20:38] the book, so I couldn't give it. He [00:20:39] signed it behind his grind. I couldn't [00:20:40] give it back. Get my money back. [00:20:43] Whereas, conversely, Eurom has only was [00:20:45] also there. And, you know, Hon, as you [00:20:48] know, banned us from his national [00:20:49] consultative conference because he said [00:20:51] he didn't think we uh we were [00:20:53] appropriate. And uh so we have and we [00:20:56] had a a series of bitter exchanges in in [00:20:58] in V. But Zone was perfectly friendly [00:21:01] and he signed the book and inscribed it [00:21:03] and we chatted about about children and [00:21:04] grandchildren. So on Yorizon is a very [00:21:07] courtly man, a very charming and warm [00:21:10] person. I'll say I had lunch with him [00:21:12] once and I I don't agree with him on a [00:21:14] lot but I um I I was I liked him. It's [00:21:18] hard not to like him. [00:21:19] >> I think he's very good. I mean a lot of [00:21:20] the stuff he says about consermism is [00:21:22] exactly accurate. I mean I think that's [00:21:23] right moving it away from being [00:21:24] classical liberalism. Uh uh the problem [00:21:28] of course is that that he's he's caught [00:21:30] in this uh bind because he doesn't want [00:21:32] to admit that is Israel is an e ethnost [00:21:34] state. Uh because he doesn't want the [00:21:36] Americans to have ethnost state. He [00:21:37] wants them to be uh to be um a c um [00:21:42] civic nationalist state. Uh [00:21:43] >> wh what what do you mean won't admit? I [00:21:45] mean Israel is by its own description an [00:21:48] ethnost state. [00:21:49] >> Yeah. Well he keeps arguing that that uh [00:21:51] >> that's not an attack by the way at all. [00:21:53] Well, you know, I I've never been able [00:21:55] to get him to explain uh how you cannot [00:21:58] say that there's a a racial component to [00:22:01] Israel when the whole when of course the [00:22:03] Jewish religion is is is racially based. [00:22:05] I mean, that's why they have a m the [00:22:07] matrinal principle where where you've [00:22:09] got to have a Jewish mother. And I've [00:22:11] never seen him respond to that. [00:22:13] >> Uh and I don't think he can cuz he he he [00:22:16] he's uh he doesn't want to encourage uh [00:22:19] straight up white nationalism in [00:22:20] America. For years, you've been told [00:22:22] this is not happening, and you're a [00:22:23] bigot for thinking it is, but it is [00:22:26] happening. Mass is reshaping the West [00:22:29] completely. It's not a conspiracy [00:22:30] theory. It's a fact. Different people [00:22:32] live here now. You're not a racist for [00:22:35] noticing that. You're just using your [00:22:36] senses. Again, it's not a theory. It's [00:22:39] the biggest fact of this or any [00:22:42] generation in a thousand years. The [00:22:44] replacement is real. European [00:22:46] governments aren't just tolerating mass [00:22:47] migration. They're encouraging it. [00:22:50] They're funding it. They hate their [00:22:52] populations and they want new [00:22:53] populations. We've got a new documentary [00:22:56] on this called Replacing Europe: [00:22:58] Following the World's Deadliest [00:22:59] Migration Route. Our filmmakers follow [00:23:01] what nobody wants you to see. They spoke [00:23:02] directly with migrants, locals, [00:23:04] officials who admit what the public is [00:23:06] never told. It's not ideological. It's [00:23:10] reality. This is happening. It's [00:23:12] destroying the West. And our cameras [00:23:15] caught it. Replacing Europe. [00:23:18] That's the dock only on TCN. Now, I I [00:23:22] just want to be clear about my own [00:23:23] views. Not that it matters, but just [00:23:24] because I hold them sincerely. I have no [00:23:27] problem with the fact that Israel is an [00:23:29] ethnostate. It's their country. You have [00:23:30] whatever state you want as far as I'm [00:23:32] concerned. [00:23:34] But it is an ethnostate by definition. [00:23:37] The people who founded it were not [00:23:38] religious. A lot of them were atheists [00:23:41] and they identified as Jewish racially. [00:23:44] Again, no, I have no problem with that [00:23:46] at all. That's their country. But to say [00:23:48] it's not an ethnostate is not only a [00:23:50] lie, but it's like a ludicrous lie. And [00:23:52] and he won't admit that. [00:23:55] >> That's my the view my reading of what he [00:23:57] what only is saying, but it's one of the [00:23:59] situations where his civic nationalism [00:24:01] is so intense that it might just as well [00:24:03] be ethnic nationalism for the US. But [00:24:05] lots of things he says about immigration [00:24:07] to the US are excellent. [00:24:09] >> Right. I agree. And I'm not attacking [00:24:10] Yor Mason at all, whom I like. But [00:24:13] that's dishonest because Israel is an [00:24:16] ethnostate [00:24:18] and you should just tell the truth about [00:24:20] especially about obvious things, right? [00:24:21] >> Well, it's what all calls double think, [00:24:23] isn't it? Double think is you got to [00:24:26] believe two contradictory things at once [00:24:27] and it's necessary to operate in in in [00:24:29] large parts of the political world. [00:24:32] >> Interesting. So, but why wouldn't [00:24:35] people who support an ethnostate in [00:24:37] Israel want one here? I mean, what why [00:24:40] would they object to that so strongly? I [00:24:42] mean, of course, this is the profound [00:24:43] question about the the American Jewish [00:24:45] role in the American immigration debate. [00:24:47] They're overwhelmingly pro- immigration. [00:24:49] However, having said that, you know, [00:24:52] typically if you know anything about [00:24:53] Jewish intellectual life, you know, [00:24:54] they're going to people on the other [00:24:55] side and some people very hardly on the [00:24:58] other side. [00:24:58] >> Oh, and I know a lot of them. why I [00:25:00] would never be anti-semitic cuz I I mean [00:25:02] you can't generalize be you know because [00:25:05] >> I mean I have I have a a hunch that [00:25:07] Steven Miller who of course is an aid to [00:25:10] to to Trump I think he's the deputy [00:25:11] chief of staff or something he's going [00:25:13] to be the first Jewish president I I say [00:25:15] this because the prospect horrifies [00:25:17] people so much uh but he's liked Israeli [00:25:20] in Britain Benjamin Israeli of course [00:25:21] was Jewish but conver convert to [00:25:24] Episcopalianism uh he was converted by [00:25:27] his father at a very early age his [00:25:28] father his father converted [00:25:30] took the whole family over to being [00:25:31] episcipalians. Uh he basically invented [00:25:34] the the consortive party in reinvent the [00:25:36] consortive party in the 19th century. He [00:25:38] came up with a in Britain he came up [00:25:39] with a complete grand strategy for it [00:25:41] based on the empire and and uh imperial [00:25:44] patriotism and so on. And that really [00:25:46] carried the party uh through uh for the [00:25:49] next um [00:25:52] 80 80 or 90 years uh uh uh a couple of [00:25:55] generations because the party was in [00:25:57] Britain was a nationalist party and and [00:25:58] and because of being a nationalist party [00:26:01] got a very substantial uh working class [00:26:04] vote uh because uh it is the blue collar [00:26:06] workers who the patriots uh and and and [00:26:09] uh the the cons to tap into that. Now [00:26:12] Miller has done the same thing. He's [00:26:14] invented a a grand strategy for the [00:26:16] Republican party which he desperately [00:26:18] doesn't want to to take up because it's [00:26:20] it's run by cowards and fools. But uh he [00:26:23] thinks they should uh they should move [00:26:25] towards um you know uh [00:26:29] restabilizing America's ethnic balance [00:26:31] and and uh basically drive uh [00:26:34] eliminating this immigrant inflow which [00:26:36] is causing all kinds of problems with [00:26:37] the flow of skilled workers and and [00:26:39] ultimately change changing the racial [00:26:40] balance. And he's not afraid to admit [00:26:43] that. And and uh [00:26:46] and not only that, but you know the [00:26:48] cunning cunning to survive the Kushner [00:26:51] White House. [00:26:51] >> Yes. [00:26:52] >> I mean that was really extraordinary [00:26:53] because Jared Kushner of course believed [00:26:54] exactly the opposite. He's basically a [00:26:56] liberal New York Jew. But for some [00:26:57] reason Mill was able to survive with [00:26:59] survive with him. I couldn't have done [00:27:01] that. So So and and um I wouldn't have [00:27:05] abandoned Jeff Sessions in the way that [00:27:07] he did. Session was was his close aid [00:27:09] and was his, you know, mentor and then [00:27:12] Miller Miller abandons him when Trump [00:27:14] turns against him. I couldn't have done [00:27:15] that either, but then he's in the White [00:27:17] House and I'm not. [00:27:18] >> Yeah. No, I think those are all fair and [00:27:21] true uh observations. [00:27:24] It's interesting though [00:27:26] the degree to which the immigration [00:27:29] project is a is a a demographic project. [00:27:33] I mean, it it has almost explicitly been [00:27:35] an effort to make America less white. [00:27:38] They'll say that it's not controversial. [00:27:41] I mean, you could you could prove it on [00:27:43] video. We didn't even bother to because [00:27:45] I think most people watching this [00:27:46] already know that its architects [00:27:48] starting with Teddy Kennedy in 1965 [00:27:50] basically just said ultimately admitted [00:27:53] this. The whole point is to make America [00:27:54] less white, a non majority white [00:27:56] country. [00:27:58] Why is it so hard for conservatives to [00:28:03] say the same if Democrats are saying we [00:28:05] want America to be non-white? Why can't [00:28:07] conservatives say that that's what their [00:28:10] motive is? [00:28:11] >> I have to say that Kennedy didn't say [00:28:13] that when he was was at first when he [00:28:16] was the yes when he was the floor [00:28:17] marriage of the heart seller. He gave [00:28:18] very explicit assurance you love to [00:28:20] quote saying that this will not alter [00:28:23] the racial balance of America and it [00:28:25] will not mean a million people you will [00:28:26] be coming in whereas in fact a million [00:28:28] people you are coming in of course [00:28:30] >> and that's one of the reasons I bitterly [00:28:31] regret not having va uh or even though I [00:28:34] have my own uh Peter B peter peterbr.com [00:28:37] substack that's not the not the same [00:28:39] kind of voice because we've got to get [00:28:41] legal immigration into the into the [00:28:42] debate here. Uh, I thought think what [00:28:45] Trump has done on illegal immigration is [00:28:47] remarkable and more and more remarkable [00:28:49] than people realize. But we're not [00:28:51] they're not doing anything on legal [00:28:52] immigration. But I'm sorry that that [00:28:54] means I've not answered your question. [00:28:55] What was your question? [00:28:56] >> Well, my question was the whole point of [00:28:58] the project was not to like feed a [00:29:01] desperate need for low-skilled labor. [00:29:04] >> That definitely no longer exists now [00:29:05] with AI. [00:29:07] >> And it wasn't to improve America. It's [00:29:11] completely destroyed America. destroyed [00:29:12] the state of California. [00:29:14] >> Well, when I was writing my the book I [00:29:16] wrote on immigration alienation that [00:29:18] flawed out of my cover story, the 95 [00:29:20] book, which Harper Gins refused to [00:29:21] reprint, uh uh I quoted a man called [00:29:24] Earl Rob, who is a Jewish activist and [00:29:27] so on. And he explicitly said that that [00:29:29] the Jews were in favor of uh of uh mass [00:29:33] im mass non-white immigration because it [00:29:35] makes the rise of a uh he didn't use the [00:29:37] term neo-Nazi, but that's what he meant. [00:29:39] And uh you know uh party in the in [00:29:42] America impossible. In fact, he does the [00:29:44] exact opposite. It makes him more like [00:29:46] >> Well, exactly. [00:29:48] Well, he did say that he and he quite [00:29:50] calmly said that this is why most Jews [00:29:53] favor uh [00:29:54] >> Well, it's also made the rise of [00:29:56] hard-edged anti-Israel politics and I'm [00:30:00] not pro- Israel especially, but I don't [00:30:02] I don't hate Israel. A lot of people who [00:30:04] hate Israel are immigrants. So, [00:30:07] >> look at look at the New York's New York [00:30:08] March race. [00:30:09] >> Well, exactly. [00:30:10] >> Vanami won because the immigrant vote. [00:30:11] >> Exactly. Exactly. native born the [00:30:14] nativeborn American New Yorkers and god [00:30:16] knows look at who they are for god's [00:30:18] sake I mean I mean uh well but they [00:30:19] voted for for against mandami [00:30:21] >> exactly [00:30:22] >> uh uh so so they have really screwed [00:30:24] themselves up this hasn't worked I mean [00:30:26] if if your interest was to keep [00:30:29] anti-semitism and really kind of crazy [00:30:32] anti-Israel sentiment to a minimum and I [00:30:34] agree with that I'm against [00:30:35] anti-semitism I'm against like basing [00:30:36] your life on hating Israel that seems [00:30:38] kind of lunatic [00:30:41] if that was your goal I mean you [00:30:43] literally achieved the opposite result. [00:30:45] Is that is that fair to say? [00:30:46] >> But not for the first time. Yeah. [00:30:48] >> Fair. [00:30:49] >> Fair. Um so think like maybe that wasn't [00:30:53] the goal. I don't know. I'm just [00:30:55] guessing here. Maybe there was another [00:30:56] goal that we don't understand. But [00:30:58] >> well I I think a lot of it is deeply uh [00:31:01] uh emotional and and and and can't be [00:31:04] analyzed intellectually. There just a [00:31:06] whole series of of reflexes [00:31:08] >> or spiritual. But you know um uh one of [00:31:12] the reason we know that the uh the New [00:31:15] York Attorney General's attack on us uh [00:31:18] was was was basically instigated by the [00:31:20] anti-deamation league uh because a [00:31:23] journalist we know actually got the ADL [00:31:25] to to admit this that they had gone to [00:31:27] Leticia James and told her to take feed [00:31:30] out and we say to ourselves why us Jews [00:31:33] what have we ever done to you? You know, [00:31:34] we have the Berkeley Springs Castle in [00:31:36] West Virginia, which we bought as a [00:31:38] conference venue because we're not [00:31:39] allowed to have conference anywhere [00:31:40] else. The dawn was Jewish. We have we [00:31:43] have we had all kinds of Jewish donors [00:31:45] and all kinds of Jewish writers, [00:31:47] but that doesn't make any difference uh [00:31:49] uh to the ideal apartment. So, what are [00:31:52] you going to do when the power goes out? [00:31:55] Not theoretically, but actually in real [00:31:57] life. Most Americans used to think total [00:32:00] power failure only happened in unstable [00:32:02] countries, places without functioning [00:32:04] governments, places you only went to on [00:32:07] vacation. This is the US. People would [00:32:09] say that could never happen here. Okay. [00:32:12] Well, then it did. Remember Texas during [00:32:14] the deep freeze? The grid collapsed. [00:32:16] People were left without heat. Some [00:32:18] froze to death in their own homes. So, [00:32:21] the truth is obvious now. The government [00:32:23] can't guarantee you electricity. And [00:32:26] when things go wrong, no one's coming to [00:32:28] save you. 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Always get [00:33:11] the grid doctor today at our very own [00:33:14] lastountupply.com. [00:33:16] Our business. This is the power supply [00:33:18] that we use. Lastount supply.com. Now to [00:33:21] what happened to you and to Vidair. So, [00:33:23] you're expelled. both from National [00:33:26] Review and you leave your old life as a [00:33:28] financial journalist behind [00:33:31] I think is a fair summary and then you [00:33:32] create this organization called Vare [00:33:34] named after Virginia Dare the first [00:33:36] British child born in the Americas and [00:33:39] it becomes successful it becomes big and [00:33:41] it's not anti-semitic it's not racist [00:33:44] it's against changing America's [00:33:46] population through immigration is that a [00:33:48] fair summary [00:33:49] >> yeah I stayed in financial journalism [00:33:51] for a long time VA was kind of a [00:33:53] moodlighting project How'd you pull that [00:33:55] off? [00:33:56] >> It was very difficult and it caused it [00:33:58] eventually became impossible. Uh uh and [00:34:02] uh I was fired both from Forbes and from [00:34:05] uh uh CBS was used to be CBS Market [00:34:08] Watch became Dow Jones Market Watch. In [00:34:10] both cases it was in it was joining um [00:34:13] turndowns in the markets but I happened [00:34:15] to be the one you know [00:34:18] uh they chose to fire me rather than [00:34:20] people who were frankly less valuable to [00:34:21] them. Uh so so it did it did in the end [00:34:25] uh terminate my career in the mainstream [00:34:27] media. But on the other hand, you know, [00:34:29] we were developing Vidair very rapidly [00:34:31] and it became quite a big deal and and [00:34:34] um in 2019 we raised nearly $4 million [00:34:37] which enabled us to buy the castle and [00:34:39] do all kinds of other things. Of course [00:34:41] we've you know we we've it's been [00:34:43] utterly destroyed now. I've been I've [00:34:45] been [00:34:46] out of it for you know it was suspended [00:34:48] two years ago and I resigned. So, you [00:34:50] know, I'm I'm supporting a family now on [00:34:52] on uh pension pensions and savings and [00:34:54] so on. And I do have a family. I have [00:34:57] minor children. So, it's it's kind of [00:34:58] irritating. [00:35:00] Irritating doesn't begin to describe it. [00:35:02] So, tell the story if you would. You're [00:35:05] running Vair and somehow Leticia James [00:35:10] who's the she's the attorney general of [00:35:12] New York. Peter is a 51c3 charity and it [00:35:14] was registered in New York in 1999 [00:35:17] entirely because I then pro bono lawyer [00:35:20] happened to be barred in New York and [00:35:21] therefore that it was convenient for him [00:35:24] and this was when um uh [00:35:28] you know the Republican governor in New [00:35:29] York and nobody ever heard of lawfare. [00:35:31] Nobody heard the idea of lawfare this [00:35:33] kind of uh uh exploitation of of uh uh [00:35:38] regulatory power never occurred to [00:35:41] anybody at that point. Well, because [00:35:42] we're registered in New York, even [00:35:44] though we don't operate in New York, she [00:35:45] she was able to demand that we one day [00:35:47] woke up and found we got these these [00:35:49] massive subpoenas [00:35:51] uh uh demanding all kinds of documents, [00:35:53] including all our email going back to [00:35:55] 2016. And of course, that was a huge [00:35:57] problem because if she got that, she [00:35:59] would have the names of our donors and [00:36:00] our anonymous pseudonymous writers. And [00:36:04] I had people writing for me whose career [00:36:05] would have been ruined if if they would [00:36:07] have been fired. [00:36:08] >> Let me ask him what Okay, so you're not [00:36:10] doicile New York. If you're not [00:36:11] operating in New York, you nothing. [00:36:12] >> Well, we're registered in New York. [00:36:13] That's the key point. [00:36:14] >> But the but the 501c3 is registered in [00:36:16] New York. That's right. That's right. [00:36:17] But you're not and you can't get out. [00:36:19] You've got you've got to have her [00:36:20] permission to get out. And you know, [00:36:22] >> you can't change states. [00:36:23] >> No, it's we have you can only with her [00:36:25] permission. Uh and in some [00:36:27] circumstances, if we were to set up [00:36:28] another 501c3 and start operating out of [00:36:31] that, she would claim that we were [00:36:32] transferring assets and she could claim [00:36:34] jurisdiction over that. It's a huge [00:36:35] mess. And we had very expensive lawyers [00:36:38] looking at it for a long time even [00:36:39] before she came along and hit us with [00:36:41] this. [00:36:42] >> But may I ask on what grounds she is [00:36:44] subpoenas to you? [00:36:45] >> She doesn't have to give grounds. Uh uh [00:36:48] but what she said was she want to [00:36:49] investigate the castle purchase uh which [00:36:51] we did in 2000 or more I should say [00:36:54] Lydia did in 2000 because you as you [00:36:56] know we had uh maybe a dozen depends how [00:36:59] you count but a dozen 15 conferences [00:37:01] canled. uh hotels would would like [00:37:03] accept a booking then they cancel as [00:37:05] soon as they came under pressure from [00:37:06] the left and we realized we were never [00:37:08] going to be able to have um uh a [00:37:10] conference. So we we bought our own [00:37:12] venue and and she wants to investigate [00:37:14] that. Well, of course all that all that [00:37:16] uh purchase was very carefully law [00:37:18] precisely because we knew she would want [00:37:20] to investigate it. But it doesn't make [00:37:22] any difference. She demands that and she [00:37:24] demanded that and she demanded all kinds [00:37:25] of other things. The real killing thing [00:37:27] for us was demanding all the email. We [00:37:29] had to turn over more than a million [00:37:30] documents. We we we we uh the real [00:37:33] killing thing was demanding the email [00:37:35] because we know if she got the writer's [00:37:37] names and the donor's name, she would [00:37:39] release them. She did that with Nikki [00:37:40] Haley. They le they leaked uh her the [00:37:43] donors to her pack. And the p the paper [00:37:45] that the papers that you saw that that [00:37:48] gave the the names of Nikki Haley's uh [00:37:51] donors were actually the letterhead was [00:37:53] was New York Attorney General's office. [00:37:56] >> Can I can I [00:37:57] >> But of course, nobody ever came after [00:37:58] for it. [00:37:58] >> I'm I'm just confused. Did did she have [00:38:01] evidence she'd committed a crime? [00:38:02] >> No, she was looking for evidence and [00:38:04] she's not found it, but she's charged us [00:38:06] anyway. Well, she hasn't charged us. [00:38:07] It's not a criminal thing, but she she's [00:38:09] she's she's suing us anyway over it. [00:38:12] >> My impression, my guess my guess is that [00:38:15] the Trump administration will begin to [00:38:18] ignore the courts in some cases and [00:38:22] people will say that this is the [00:38:23] beginning of fascism and a takeover of [00:38:26] of the destruction of our legal system. [00:38:28] And you know that's a fair point. [00:38:31] >> No, but I would not a fair point though [00:38:33] has been destroyed. [00:38:34] >> Exly. That's exactly what I'm about to [00:38:35] say. Exactly. [00:38:37] It has already been destroyed. And when [00:38:39] the attorney general of a state you [00:38:41] don't live or operate in can destroy you [00:38:43] because she doesn't like your opinions, [00:38:44] then we don't have a functioning legal [00:38:46] system. Period. And this happened before [00:38:48] Trump. So just want to say that [00:38:50] >> the wonderful I mean one one you know [00:38:52] one of the wonderful things let me back [00:38:54] up a second. One wonderful thing that [00:38:57] has happened within the last year is [00:38:58] that a very enterprising journalist [00:39:00] actually dug up a speech made to the [00:39:02] ADL, they had a conference called uh [00:39:04] taking hate to court by Rick Sawyer, who [00:39:08] is one of uh Leticia James operatives, [00:39:10] and he uh is the one who's leading the [00:39:12] charge against us. Uh and he said uh in [00:39:16] at this in this to this conference that [00:39:18] hate speech, that's us, hate speech is [00:39:21] protected by the first amendment. But [00:39:23] there are ways around that. all you have [00:39:25] to do if if it's a charity and you have [00:39:27] jurisdiction to start issuing subpoenas. [00:39:29] He said it sucks to be sued. Just [00:39:31] subpoenaed them to death. Uh and and of [00:39:34] course that's exactly what he's done to [00:39:35] us. Uh you know they inflicted over a [00:39:37] million million million and a half [00:39:38] dollars in out of pocket costs for [00:39:40] lawyers and so on, let alone the [00:39:42] hundreds of hours that lady had to spend [00:39:43] to get through documents and so on which [00:39:45] meant that she couldn't fund raise or do [00:39:46] any of the work. They just they just [00:39:49] destroy you through through the process [00:39:51] of the punishment. They just destroy you [00:39:52] that way. So he's actually openly [00:39:53] admitting this. So when we saw this, we [00:39:55] thought, "Oh, it's all over." They've [00:39:57] obviously admitted that uh what they're [00:39:58] doing is not it's political. It's not [00:40:00] because of some regulatory concern. But [00:40:03] we've been totally unable to get the [00:40:04] federal court to pay attention to pay [00:40:06] attention to this. Uh uh we're trying [00:40:09] again now. We have we have what they [00:40:11] call 1983 action against Leticia James [00:40:14] and the operatives personally, and we're [00:40:16] trying to raise the the first this first [00:40:18] amendment question there. But but um the [00:40:21] courts have been extremely resistant to [00:40:22] looking at it. [00:40:23] >> Well, I I mean, if the attorney general [00:40:26] or staff are admitting they're [00:40:28] destroying you because they disagree [00:40:29] with your opinions, seems to me that any [00:40:33] federal court would take that up because [00:40:34] that's a foundational question. [00:40:36] >> That's what we thought. But in fact, [00:40:38] they didn't. They the first time we did [00:40:41] it, the court simply dodged on a [00:40:43] technical issue. Um they have a techn [00:40:45] they came up with a technical excuse to [00:40:47] dodging and uh we have Troy trying again [00:40:50] now but but you know [00:40:54] we just have to hope for the best. I [00:40:56] think one of the things that is clear to [00:40:58] me uh I mean I is uh from looking at our [00:41:03] litigation experience which is now [00:41:05] considerably goes far beyond the this [00:41:07] this situation and other cases I'm aware [00:41:09] of is that there seems to been some [00:41:11] message gone out from judge central that [00:41:14] uh anything that that's quote unquote in [00:41:16] a white nationalist has got to be [00:41:17] suppressed by any means necessary. Uh in [00:41:21] our case, the the the classic example is [00:41:23] uh we had a hotel cancel on us in [00:41:26] Colorado Springs. Um and they [00:41:30] while Cororo was not with them because [00:41:32] they paid up the liquidated damages like [00:41:34] men and it was a lot of money but they [00:41:37] cancelled uh because the mayor of [00:41:39] Colorado Springs who was a rhino John [00:41:41] Sulls had said he wouldn't extend police [00:41:43] protection to the conference when when [00:41:45] the you know in other words Antifac go [00:41:49] and and [00:41:49] >> he wouldn't extend police protection. [00:41:52] >> Yes that's right now this is an issue [00:41:53] that's [00:41:54] >> he's trying to kill you. [00:41:55] >> That's right. [00:41:55] >> And who is this? His name was John [00:41:57] Suthers. He was the mayor of He was the [00:41:59] Republican. [00:42:00] >> John Suthers, the mayor of Colorado [00:42:02] Springs, [00:42:03] >> basically threatened to allow mortal [00:42:05] violence against you if you went to his [00:42:08] >> That's right. city. [00:42:08] >> Now, this is an issue which has been [00:42:11] extensively litigated in the civil [00:42:12] rights era and the point was made very [00:42:15] clear that that that by the courts that [00:42:17] that the the local authorities, local [00:42:19] governments have to extend protection to [00:42:21] people's first amendment rights. In [00:42:23] other words, in those days, the black [00:42:26] demonstrators would go into would would [00:42:27] have meetings in the city and the local [00:42:29] the local whites would be angry about [00:42:31] it. Well, those whites had to be kept [00:42:32] away. The blacks had to be allowed to [00:42:34] have their meetings. Well, we litigated [00:42:36] this right up to the Supreme Court and [00:42:39] uh which refused to take take the issue [00:42:41] up and there was uh the appeals court in [00:42:44] Colorado rejected us. uh and I believe [00:42:47] it had at least one we had one good [00:42:48] judge there uh who who said this is [00:42:50] obviously attack on first amendment [00:42:52] rights and and but the other two who I [00:42:54] think were Republican appointees to uh [00:42:56] vote against us so we lost and and uh we [00:43:00] weren't able to our initial lawyer you [00:43:02] know civil rights litigation is [00:43:03] extremely damaging if you're on the [00:43:05] wrong side of it I mean there's enormous [00:43:06] damages involved so it was it would we [00:43:08] we would have uh [00:43:11] it would have been a huge sort of [00:43:12] victory and we would have we would have [00:43:13] actually been made whole in a very [00:43:14] dramatic way Um and our initial lawyer [00:43:17] in Cardo Springs was so keen on this. It [00:43:19] was so obvious open and shut case that [00:43:21] he took it on contingency, you know. Uh [00:43:23] but as soon as he realized that the the [00:43:25] city was going to resist, he ran away [00:43:26] and we had to start paying paying [00:43:28] lawyers to to litigate him. Well, [00:43:31] anyway, um subsequently there was a case [00:43:33] in in before the Supreme Court uh New [00:43:36] York I guess was Volo. It's called the [00:43:38] Volo case V L O. And this was a case [00:43:41] where the communists in Europe were [00:43:43] putting pressure on insurance companies [00:43:46] not to ensure the NRA and the NRA NRA [00:43:49] fought it and and uh and and he won. And [00:43:53] in the uh in the in the decision um um [00:43:58] Kadeni Jackson says the NAS case is [00:44:00] strong but essentially I'm paraphrasing [00:44:02] it's not as strong as VR's case uh where [00:44:05] they where they were um denied police [00:44:08] where the state agency you know [00:44:09] basically discriminates against them on [00:44:11] political grounds. What's this? We we [00:44:14] never heard about this. Well, it turns [00:44:16] out that 16 attorney general had signed [00:44:18] an amikas brief saying that the the [00:44:21] appeals court in Colorado had been wrong [00:44:23] to to to to reject our attempt to uh to [00:44:26] uh sue Colorado Springs on a on a civil [00:44:29] rights theory and that it was wrong for [00:44:32] the following reasons. And for that [00:44:33] reason, the Supreme Court should take up [00:44:34] the NRA's case against NRA versus Volo, [00:44:37] I guess it was called. and the the [00:44:39] Supreme Court did take it on and ruled [00:44:42] against the the state of New York 90 [00:44:46] which of course does absolutely no good [00:44:48] whatever cuz we're out all that money [00:44:50] and uh you know uh our force a memorized [00:44:53] are not protected. I mean in other words [00:44:55] there's a real determination on the part [00:44:57] the NRA is apparently more palatable [00:44:59] than we are. [00:45:01] I'm a little bit confused just [00:45:04] conceptually with the idea that white [00:45:08] self-awareness is effectively illegal in [00:45:10] the United States, whereas ethnic [00:45:12] self-awareness in every other group is [00:45:14] encouraged. Like, doesn't make any [00:45:17] sense. Speak for myself, I'd rather live [00:45:19] in a dracialized world where people [00:45:21] think about it less cuz it's it does [00:45:22] cause problems. But as long as you're [00:45:24] encouraging identity politics, why do [00:45:27] whites not get to have it? What is the [00:45:29] answer? Well, it's completely completely [00:45:30] hypocritical. It's because the people [00:45:32] running the society are anti-white [00:45:35] and they've been able to persuade or [00:45:38] intimidate the entire the entire legal [00:45:40] system to to operate in an anti-white [00:45:42] way. [00:45:44] Well, anti-white in this case really [00:45:45] means anti-American. I mean mean uh uh [00:45:47] because the whites are Americans. That's [00:45:50] who Americans are. You know, the people [00:45:52] who sign the Declaration of [00:45:53] Independence. [00:45:54] >> Yeah, I did know that. And the purpose [00:45:58] of the project like big picture again I [00:46:01] keep going back to this but I'm just I [00:46:02] am a little bit confused because this is [00:46:04] the defining fact of our lives is that [00:46:08] whites around the world are being [00:46:09] eliminated and I would like to know why. [00:46:12] Do you have any guesses? [00:46:14] >> As I say I think doctor I think it [00:46:16] derives from emotion rather than any [00:46:18] kind of rational uh calculation. I mean, [00:46:22] if you look at what's happened in South [00:46:23] Africa or for that matter at in every [00:46:25] big American black city that's that's [00:46:27] that's majority black. I mean, they [00:46:29] can't want it to be to to get into a [00:46:31] situation where the water water is is [00:46:33] putrid and and nothing works and all [00:46:35] that kind of thing. And [00:46:36] >> but they do that what you know the [00:46:39] purpose system is is what it does and [00:46:41] the purpose of of uh you know non-white [00:46:44] government is to produce non-white [00:46:46] government and non-white results. Unless [00:46:49] of course you're Chinese. I mean because [00:46:50] Singapore's run Japanese Singap they're [00:46:53] run very efficiently [00:46:54] >> of they are. It's just interesting that [00:46:56] people move here because it's a white [00:46:58] country and we [00:46:59] >> see to run it into the ground. Yes. [00:47:00] >> Well, all of us benefit white and [00:47:02] non-white benefit alike from systems [00:47:05] created by whites because they're more [00:47:07] humane. [00:47:08] >> They're more just, they're more fair, [00:47:10] and they're more much more efficient and [00:47:11] and cleaner. Um obviously [00:47:14] >> you know I was looking an interview if I [00:47:16] can interrupt you. I was looking at an [00:47:17] interview I did somebody sent me an [00:47:18] interview I did for Forbes magazine with [00:47:21] Milton Friedman and uh I asked him are [00:47:24] there cultural prerequisites for [00:47:26] capitalism and he said yes I think and [00:47:29] as you know he's a very a fire breathing [00:47:31] libertarian and but he actually thought [00:47:33] about this question and he said that uh [00:47:36] you know he said capitalism has really [00:47:37] only ever worked in English-sp [00:47:39] speakaking countries said I don't know [00:47:41] why this is so but the fact has to be [00:47:43] admitted that there's some kind of a [00:47:45] cultural underpinninging [00:47:47] for capitalism [00:47:49] I sometimes what economists call a meta [00:47:51] market framework market operates [00:47:54] >> so the question is why are these [00:47:55] capitalists bring you know why is the [00:47:58] chamber of commerce sue into to to to to [00:48:01] keep the H-1B flow coming um when they [00:48:04] know it's going to when it's obviously [00:48:05] going to produce people who don't do [00:48:07] like mandami who who don't who don't [00:48:08] support capitalism in fact hate it what [00:48:10] are the capitalists doing well they're [00:48:12] doing what Lenin said they're selling [00:48:13] they will sell us the rope by which with [00:48:15] which we hang [00:48:17] And I mean that's demonstrable. It was [00:48:19] true in 1917. It's true in 2026. [00:48:24] Do you think it's the product of [00:48:25] short-term thinking? [00:48:27] >> Oh, in the case in the case of uh [00:48:29] business people, of course it is. The [00:48:31] malign influence the Wall Street Journal [00:48:32] editorial page, a whole generation of of [00:48:35] of business people actually believe all [00:48:37] this nonsense. It's very hard to uh to [00:48:39] get get out of their heads cuz they're [00:48:41] never allowed I mean they're never [00:48:43] allowed criticism of immigration on on [00:48:44] on the editorial page. [00:48:46] >> So you've referred repeatedly to the [00:48:48] Wall Street Journal and also to Harper [00:48:49] Collins. Both of them are owned by the [00:48:50] Murdoch family, [00:48:51] >> right? [00:48:52] >> What's been your experience with the [00:48:53] Murdochs? Well, you know, I I um [00:48:58] uh I spent well over a year working for [00:49:02] Robert um in I think that's 1990 uh on [00:49:06] ghosting his autobiography uh which was [00:49:08] never published for various reasons. He [00:49:10] changed his mind about it. But I have to [00:49:12] say he was extraordinarily generous to [00:49:14] me personally and he continued to be [00:49:15] extraordinarily generous until very [00:49:18] recently when the when um uh I guess I [00:49:21] guess I had been on the payroll quietly [00:49:23] for a very long time and they dropped me [00:49:24] when when you came under attack because [00:49:27] some somebody looked into people on the [00:49:29] payroll and they found that this thought [00:49:31] criminals on the payroll. [00:49:33] So so at that point at that point I was [00:49:35] dropped but but he was been he's always [00:49:37] personally been extraordinary generous [00:49:38] to me. That is my experience with Rupert [00:49:40] Murdoch [00:49:41] >> and you know that's not the case with a [00:49:43] lot of these characters lot of these [00:49:45] small Robert Maxwell and so on. I [00:49:47] remember Rupert tell me once that he [00:49:48] thought that Maxwell Maxwell as you know [00:49:51] fell off his yacht in in off the Canary [00:49:54] Islands and and was found dead. Rupert's [00:49:56] theory was this guy is such a jerk that [00:50:00] the crew probably couldn't stand him [00:50:02] anymore. [00:50:02] >> That is one theory. That is one theory. [00:50:05] His lawyer told me that he was murdered [00:50:06] by uh the Israelis for whom he worked. I [00:50:09] don't know the truth of it, but he [00:50:10] certainly had a lot of enemies and a lot [00:50:12] of suspects in that crowd. [00:50:13] >> But I mean, he was personal in place and [00:50:14] that's that's not the case with Rbert. [00:50:16] He's not cruel. He's not he's not [00:50:17] vindic. [00:50:17] >> Rupert is one of the most personally [00:50:19] gracious people I've ever met in my [00:50:21] life. I mean, he has perfect manners. He [00:50:23] is truly Anglo in that way. [00:50:25] >> And I never had a bad time with him. [00:50:27] Always agree. Even when he fired me, I [00:50:29] talked to him after and he couldn't have [00:50:30] been nicer. So, I I strongly agree with [00:50:32] your assessment. But he kept you on the [00:50:35] payroll for decades. [00:50:37] >> Yeah. [00:50:39] So I had I had five children born on his [00:50:41] his healthcare. [00:50:42] >> I had some born on his healthcare, too. [00:50:46] >> It was bless you, Rupert Murdoch. [00:50:50] >> It was very good. I mean, [00:50:51] >> no, it's a I mean, I don't know. The [00:50:53] truth should be told, good and bad. Um, [00:50:55] >> so essentially, I was a consultant for [00:50:56] him and I and he didn't didn't consult [00:50:58] me at all. Uh uh because of course I [00:51:00] would have told him to do the exact [00:51:01] opposite of what he was asked to do. Uh [00:51:04] but but but I I I I have no complaints [00:51:06] about Ren Murdo. [00:51:07] >> Yes. No, I I I just want to say out loud [00:51:09] I agree with you 100% through much [00:51:11] experience 25 years. Um so but it does [00:51:14] it does raise the question as it does [00:51:16] with Bill Buckley then you know Rupert [00:51:19] has great personal decency [00:51:22] um that I and I've seen it but his the [00:51:25] editorial product is [00:51:29] aggressively opposed to American basic [00:51:31] American interests. So like what is [00:51:32] that? This guy likes America. He treats [00:51:35] people around him well. There's a lot [00:51:37] good to say about Rupert. But the Wall [00:51:40] Street Journal, the New York Post, [00:51:41] Harper Collins, like all of them are [00:51:43] engaged in a very aggressive campaign [00:51:45] against [00:51:46] America's interest. So why why is that? [00:51:49] Do you know? Well, I think he handed [00:51:52] over the sort of intellectual uh uh the [00:51:56] thinking part of of of uh uh news [00:51:59] corporation or or 21st century Fox is [00:52:02] called whatever it's called now to the [00:52:04] neoconservatives. And so he took on a [00:52:06] lot of neoonservative baggage at that [00:52:07] point. I mean they used to run editorial [00:52:09] every year saying there ought to be a [00:52:12] constitutional amendment. There shall be [00:52:13] open borders, you know. I mean, it was [00:52:16] really lunatic and uh uh and I believe [00:52:19] that's still the case. But why would he [00:52:22] do that? [00:52:23] >> Um [00:52:24] first of all, because they're very good. [00:52:26] They're extremely active, uh full of [00:52:27] ideas, full of energy. Uh do extremely [00:52:30] good in the cold war. Uh [00:52:32] >> they were that's correct, [00:52:33] >> you know, but that was then and this is [00:52:34] now. And they have just simply haven't [00:52:35] made made the transition. But that that [00:52:37] that's that's a major reason. I know. Of [00:52:39] course he's operating in New York and [00:52:41] you know he was under a lot of suspicion [00:52:43] there and and uh as being a you know he [00:52:47] had to show what he was what Gidal [00:52:50] called once an okay guy and and he's [00:52:53] showing that [00:52:55] it's genuine though with Robert. I [00:52:56] remember once talking to him about why [00:52:59] he was so pro the the initial Iraq war, [00:53:02] the Gulf War, and he said, "Well, you [00:53:05] know, it it goes back to it goes back to [00:53:08] my father and and Gallipoli. You know, [00:53:10] his father played a major role in in uh [00:53:12] uh discrediting the Galipid expedition, [00:53:14] which was this attack orchestrated by [00:53:16] Wilson Winston Churchill. They're trying [00:53:18] to break through the Dardels to get to [00:53:19] Russia to help Russia join the war. He [00:53:22] said, "So, so I'm just I guess I'm just [00:53:24] basically anti-Arab." I said, "Those [00:53:26] aren't Arabs. The Turks." [00:53:27] >> Well, exactly. [00:53:29] >> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. They're all the [00:53:31] same. [00:53:32] >> Yeah. The Ottoman Empire is gone and [00:53:33] they've done an enormous amount of [00:53:35] business in the Gulf with Arabs who [00:53:37] helped finance his companies. So, it's [00:53:40] kind of a strange answer. His father was [00:53:41] a famous journalist in Australia who [00:53:43] broke the news of the disaster said. Um, [00:53:45] and he was very proud of that, [00:53:48] >> but that's not much of an answer, [00:53:51] is it? [00:53:52] >> Well, you're doing better than I do, [00:53:53] Tuck. [00:53:54] >> I don't know. I I just it's a it you [00:53:56] know he said such an effect on the world [00:53:58] and on my life and as I said five times [00:54:01] I've always liked him and still do but [00:54:02] it does said to me once one of his his [00:54:05] his uh um henchmen in Australia said to [00:54:09] me that uh Rbert is a businessman who [00:54:12] wants to be a journalist and his father [00:54:14] is a journalist who wants to be a [00:54:15] businessman because he did found a a [00:54:17] published empire in Australia Keith [00:54:20] Murdoch and I think there's a lot in [00:54:21] that I mean I think that uh He he we we [00:54:26] you and I are idologs professional [00:54:28] ideologues but is not a professional [00:54:29] ideolog somebody who spends all his time [00:54:32] looking at numbers it's a fantastic [00:54:33] memory for numbers and he knows all he [00:54:35] can I can never remember any phone [00:54:36] numbers he remembers every phone number [00:54:38] he's ever dialed you know uh and and [00:54:41] running an operation like like his [00:54:44] requires a tremendous attention to [00:54:46] detail tremendous application to going [00:54:50] over pages and pages and pages of [00:54:52] figures and I don't know that he has a [00:54:54] their time thinking about politics [00:54:55] except in a sporting sense. I mean, he [00:54:57] likes to be he like he likes, you know, [00:54:59] he likes to be backing winners and and [00:55:01] and and uh winning elections and that [00:55:04] kind of thing, but then he likes going [00:55:05] to Australian football matches, too. So, [00:55:07] so it's I think it's kind of a similar [00:55:09] thing. That is a very smart analysis. I [00:55:12] think you're I think you're exactly I [00:55:13] think you just answered the question. [00:55:15] He's outsourced a lot of the thinking to [00:55:18] others. It's transactional. He's not [00:55:21] tightly wedded to ideological details at [00:55:25] all, [00:55:26] >> but he's really allowed the Wall Street [00:55:28] Journal editorial page to become a force [00:55:30] of destruction. [00:55:31] >> Well, I have to admit it's many years [00:55:32] since I've bothered to read the Wall [00:55:33] Street Journal. I I I rely on people [00:55:36] sending me things and uh they don't send [00:55:38] much from the Wall Street Journal uh or [00:55:41] or for that matter from National Review. [00:55:42] I very rarely seem to see [00:55:44] >> Is National Review still in existence? [00:55:48] >> Apparently so. It has it has the [00:55:50] Republican uh you know establishment to [00:55:52] support. [00:55:54] >> It's like Lindsey Graham and Ted Cruz [00:55:56] and what do you know the editor of [00:55:58] National Review? [00:55:59] >> I have the You mean Rich Larry? He's g [00:56:01] He's gone for some time now, isn't he? [00:56:03] Isn't Isn't he hasn't he been don't have [00:56:05] somebody else? [00:56:05] >> I have the faintest idea. But did you [00:56:07] know him? [00:56:09] >> You know, I sat in rooms with him uh and [00:56:12] I I went to Buck Parts with him. [00:56:14] Absolutely no memory of him at all. He [00:56:15] never said anything at all uh of of [00:56:18] significance and I think that's why why [00:56:20] uh Bill had him because he was [00:56:21] completely malleable. [00:56:23] >> Yeah, I think that sounds that sounds [00:56:24] right. Sad sad how much has been lost. [00:56:27] So uh speaking of lost what happened in [00:56:30] the end if you and I interrupted your [00:56:32] story my apologies but to Vidair Vair is [00:56:35] suspended spended in July of 2024 [00:56:38] because we just ran out of money. uh the [00:56:40] foundation is still in existence and [00:56:42] Lydia is still uh uh she's not paid but [00:56:45] she's still she she's still paying [00:56:47] lawyers and deal we're dealing with the [00:56:48] the legal situation which continues to [00:56:50] ramify as I say we're being sued [00:56:52] personally and and as a foundation and [00:56:55] >> on what grounds are you being sued? [00:56:56] >> Oh there's a whole bunch of things [00:56:57] fundamentally technical uh issues to do [00:57:00] with with um to do with uh whether we uh [00:57:04] had the right number of directors vote [00:57:05] on the right number of things. It's all [00:57:06] paperwork stuff. It's all stuff that [00:57:09] could would normally resolve with a [00:57:11] phone call and and possibly a refiling [00:57:13] and stuff like that. They've not found [00:57:15] any evidence of of uh misappropriation [00:57:18] of funds and in fact we move to dismiss [00:57:20] on this basis that that although they [00:57:22] huff and puff a lot I mean there 60 odd [00:57:24] pages of rhetoric but the actual charges [00:57:27] they haven't got anything. [00:57:29] >> Who is suing you? [00:57:30] >> This is New York New York State. [00:57:32] >> So they're using tax dollars still to [00:57:34] >> Oh yes, that's right. Enormous. It's [00:57:35] been is they they've spent a great deal [00:57:37] of money on this. They also uh very [00:57:40] weirdly subpoenaed Facebook for all our [00:57:42] records of all our dealings with [00:57:44] Facebook. Well, Facebook banned us in [00:57:46] 2020 as part of Zuckerberg's campaign to [00:57:48] defeat Donald Trump. They thought we [00:57:50] were we were pro Trump. So, we actually [00:57:53] had not hadn't had any deal with [00:57:54] Facebook for more than two years when [00:57:55] they came after us. Um, and uh, but [00:58:00] nevertheless, they got all these records [00:58:01] off off of Facebook, [00:58:04] but they've done nothing with them [00:58:05] because of course there's nothing there. [00:58:07] We I think they I think they genuinely [00:58:09] thought that they would find that we [00:58:10] were accepting money from the Russians [00:58:13] >> or something to run to run bat farms, [00:58:15] you know. Do you remember that was the [00:58:16] allegation with interference in in the [00:58:20] 2016 that the Russians were financing [00:58:22] tiny little Facebook pages and that's [00:58:24] that's what how they were manipulating [00:58:26] the election. I think the Russ I think [00:58:28] they genuinely believe that. I think one [00:58:29] of the things about Democrats is that [00:58:31] they really do believe their own [00:58:32] propaganda. You know they do think that [00:58:35] the middle America is full of people [00:58:36] wearing pointed hats. [00:58:37] >> We'll be at war with Qatar by the end [00:58:39] just because they've talked themselves [00:58:40] into believing Qatar secretly controls [00:58:43] America as they did with Russia. And [00:58:44] then we went to war with Russia and [00:58:45] we're still at war with Russia over [00:58:47] there. [00:58:47] >> Right. The tr the difficulty with this [00:58:49] is that the Republicans believe the [00:58:50] Democratic propaganda too which is why [00:58:52] they want for example appeal appeals to [00:58:55] the white vote. One of the things we did [00:58:57] at Vale we is is we we we discussed and [00:59:00] documented what we call the sailor [00:59:01] strategy as opposed to the Ro strategy. [00:59:04] In in in uh 2000 Carl Rove was saying [00:59:07] that the Republicans have got to do [00:59:08] outreach to minorities. Uh and uh uh uh [00:59:12] it makes no sense statistically because [00:59:14] I think uh George Bush George um [00:59:18] W Bush got got like 51% of the Y vote. [00:59:21] It's appalling performance. So Steve [00:59:23] Sailor who's one of our writers who [00:59:24] we've had on pointed out that if they [00:59:26] could just increase that potential [00:59:28] proportion of the Y vote to what his [00:59:30] father got which was like 57 58%. Uh [00:59:32] that would swamp and overwhelm any [00:59:34] possible conceivable gain among minority [00:59:37] voters. So we were saying you should go [00:59:39] for the white vote. Uh and and uh now [00:59:42] this caused a great deal of trouble for [00:59:44] us. I remember got a letter from an [00:59:46] email from Jude Wiski. Do you remember [00:59:47] Jude Winsky supply? He said, "Peter, [00:59:50] you've gone too far." [00:59:51] >> In other words, appeals to the white [00:59:53] vote is not allowed. And look, it's just [00:59:56] a question arithmetic. You know, there's [00:59:59] more of them than there are minorities. [01:00:01] Uh any case, to this day, the [01:00:03] Republicans still not done that. They [01:00:05] had done it tested. Why was Jude Waniski [01:00:07] mad? [01:00:08] >> Um Jude was Jude was a liberal, you [01:00:10] know, and way back when he was a liberal [01:00:12] Democrat and he still had a lot of these [01:00:14] uh reflexes, but it was just thought to [01:00:18] be people just got very emotional about [01:00:19] it. You know, the um they they they [01:00:23] think it's somehow illegitimate and they [01:00:25] still do think it's illegitimate. for [01:00:27] example. So we see in Virginia uh in [01:00:29] this last election, you know, this Ynan [01:00:32] who who's a complete cipher as far as a [01:00:34] Wall Street cipher as far as I can see [01:00:36] chooses has his success in the [01:00:38] governatorial race. Uh uh a a woman a [01:00:42] candidate who was one an immigrant, two [01:00:44] a woman and three black. She's a black [01:00:47] Jamaican immigrant. And this is how he's [01:00:48] going to appeal to the white vote. [01:00:49] They're going to get people in the south [01:00:50] south or the halls of southwest of [01:00:52] Virginia out to vote to for this white [01:00:55] black immigrant. It's ridiculous. And of [01:00:57] course, they got a terrible share of the [01:00:58] white ball is like 53% and that's why [01:01:00] they lost. But they would rather lose [01:01:02] than than than to make a full out appeal [01:01:04] to white. [01:01:05] >> I think the tell was in the ability. So [01:01:07] this was an inca, you know, I'm not [01:01:09] saying a bad person, but uh Winome Sears [01:01:13] was not a a good candidate. It was kind [01:01:15] of an incapable candidate and um and [01:01:18] hard to hard to deal with. So like they [01:01:21] chose her because she was black. [01:01:23] >> That's right. despite the fact that she [01:01:25] wasn't good at her job. [01:01:26] >> I mean, this is epidemic in the [01:01:28] Republican party. [01:01:28] >> Well, it's epidemic in the country. [01:01:29] >> They've chosen so Republicans in [01:01:31] particular have chosen so many black [01:01:32] candidates. They're about to do it here [01:01:33] in Florida. The the next goal candidate [01:01:37] is like to black unless uh a miracle [01:01:39] occurs. Uh why is that? They just they [01:01:42] they are just they are just um pixelated [01:01:47] by this transfixed by this uh I'm trying [01:01:51] to find the right word. hypnotized by [01:01:53] this phenomenon by by the whole race [01:01:55] quest. They just race whips is what it [01:01:57] comes down to. They they just they're [01:01:58] just so afraid of being called racist [01:02:00] that they'd rather lose with a black [01:02:01] candidate than than run a candidate who [01:02:04] appeals appeals to whites. Trump did [01:02:07] appeal to whites. Not enough, but he [01:02:08] does it in some kind of really implicit [01:02:10] way. If you actually look at what Trump [01:02:11] said in spite of all the rhetoric, he's [01:02:13] he's not said anything that's explicitly [01:02:15] white nationalist or anything. I see no [01:02:17] sign that he's other than a civic [01:02:19] nationalist. But for some reason, he's [01:02:21] made some connection. I mean, all [01:02:22] through West Virginia for that, you [01:02:24] know, when while Biden was was was [01:02:26] president, you you would see these these [01:02:29] um signs supporting Trump and and saying [01:02:32] very rude things about Biden. Uh and [01:02:35] these are outside trails, [01:02:36] >> very rude things about Biden. Yeah. [01:02:39] >> I mean, you know, this this is a poor [01:02:41] area. the these rundown trailer homes [01:02:43] that you see with these Trump signs on [01:02:45] them. For some reason, Trump made a [01:02:46] connection with them and it it's it's [01:02:49] eerie. Now, on the other hand, he also [01:02:51] made a disconnection with the other [01:02:52] side. So, you get this Trump derangement [01:02:54] syndrome, but he was able to mobilize [01:02:55] the white voters. [01:02:56] >> Why do you think that was? [01:02:58] >> Which which part of it? [01:02:59] >> That he was able workingass [01:03:02] uh whites love Trump. Trump is not a [01:03:06] racist. I've never seen any sign of that [01:03:09] at all. and not a white nationalist at [01:03:12] all and hardly a Christian nationalists, [01:03:15] but he for some reason had an emotional [01:03:18] connection with these voters. Why? Uh do [01:03:20] you know [01:03:21] >> there's a concept in in sociology called [01:03:23] the implicit community. You know, [01:03:25] communities that that uh represent or [01:03:28] appeal to some people without actually [01:03:30] saying it explicitly. The classic [01:03:32] example with NASCAR, for example, why is [01:03:34] Nazcar a a white uh stronghold? or [01:03:37] everybody watching NASCAR is wide and [01:03:39] the NASCAR operatives don't like this [01:03:42] and they can't yeah constantly trying to [01:03:44] diversify Republican party is a classic [01:03:46] example of this I mean without ever uh [01:03:48] without ever doing anything to deserve [01:03:50] it the Republicans have become [01:03:52] absolutely unbeatable in Virginia and [01:03:53] you and I both remember then when the [01:03:55] Democrats were unbeatable in Virginia [01:03:57] you know uh I forget when the last rep I [01:04:00] also keep forgetting when the last [01:04:02] Republican Democrat to Kai West Virginia [01:04:03] was but it might have been it might have [01:04:05] been uh Clinton [01:04:07] And now now it's just the Democrats have [01:04:10] ceased to exist in in West Virginia. [01:04:11] Even though this is a very poor state, [01:04:13] Republicans prevailed by simply by [01:04:15] virtue of not being Democrats. [01:04:16] >> Bill Clinton lost California in '92 and [01:04:18] won West Virginia. That's how much has [01:04:21] changed. [01:04:21] >> Yeah. Right. [01:04:23] So there's something that's going on at [01:04:26] a very deep psychological level. Some [01:04:27] kind some kind of implicit implicit [01:04:29] signaling. It's baffling. [01:04:33] Now, of course, he did say, you know, [01:04:34] when he came down the elevator and said [01:04:36] just a few words about Mexico, uh, about [01:04:39] Mexican immigration and never looked [01:04:42] back. So, he obviously struck a nerve [01:04:43] there. So, he did enough to strike a [01:04:45] nerve and simply by raising immigration [01:04:46] in the sort of rather, [01:04:49] you know, I'm sure it drives Steven [01:04:51] Miller crazy, incoherent and peculiar [01:04:54] and constantly forgets his lines and [01:04:55] says the wrong thing way that Trump does [01:04:57] talk about immigration. Uh but he did [01:05:00] did raise it and of course until then it [01:05:02] was it's been driven out of Republican [01:05:04] parties completely. I know we wrote [01:05:06] about it for for [01:05:08] >> you were fired over it. Right. [01:05:09] >> Right. just we you know and we there's [01:05:12] there's almost no sign that any [01:05:13] Republican would pick it up but then [01:05:15] when he did the damn broke and now what [01:05:16] I big difference that I found uh Tucker [01:05:20] is is um [01:05:22] if you speak to grassroots Republicans [01:05:24] as opposed to elected Republicans uh the [01:05:27] consensus overwhelming that [01:05:28] immigration's got to be ended the [01:05:31] consensus is overwhelming whereas uh [01:05:33] when I when I got involved in this in [01:05:35] the early '9s a lot of Republicans never [01:05:37] heard of this question and they would [01:05:38] assume for example that Republican that [01:05:40] immigrants uh don't go on welfare to the [01:05:42] same extent that native born do which is [01:05:44] completely wrong. It's completely [01:05:45] reverse the truth and it was back then [01:05:46] it was obvious that they were going back [01:05:47] onto into welfare in in in uh uh [01:05:50] disproportionate numbers but people [01:05:52] didn't know and the Wall Street Journal [01:05:54] is not telling them well the Wall Street [01:05:55] Journal still isn't telling them but [01:05:56] they do know now and maybe we played a [01:05:59] role in that. [01:06:00] >> Well yeah and it's and it's had a you [01:06:02] know such a complex and degrading effect [01:06:05] on the native population. It hasn't been [01:06:07] it's not just a matter of competition in [01:06:09] the job market or my you know my tech [01:06:11] job went to an Indian or something. It's [01:06:13] it's way more complicated than that. And [01:06:15] as you know immigrant communities became [01:06:18] totally dependent on federal benefits [01:06:21] it changed the incentive structure for [01:06:23] nativeorn communities and a lot of them [01:06:25] started going on it at higher rates [01:06:27] also. So it just it it created a vortex [01:06:30] that's hurt everybody I think especially [01:06:32] the whites. Um, where does it go from [01:06:34] here? [01:06:37] >> The big thing that has to the next if I [01:06:38] was still running vid and and and on my [01:06:41] own website peter brimmo.com now I I [01:06:44] what I'm interested is legal [01:06:45] immigration. Legal immigration is still [01:06:47] running at a million a year. No, that's [01:06:50] that puts the the the fact that the the [01:06:52] foreignb born population in the US has [01:06:54] fallen by like 2 and a half million uh [01:06:56] in the last in just joining this year. [01:06:58] That's extraordinary number. I used to [01:07:00] track a vid the foreignb born population [01:07:02] because it's a way of of of tracking the [01:07:05] impact of immigration. It's very rarely [01:07:07] goes negative. It went negative briefly [01:07:10] uh uh when Trump first got in because [01:07:11] they were frightened of him and a lot of [01:07:13] legal eagles left and then towards the [01:07:15] end before co it was falling because of [01:07:17] various technical executive action [01:07:20] measures that Trump had taken the [01:07:21] administration taken to tighten up on on [01:07:23] uh both legal immigration and illegal [01:07:25] immigration. Now, well, now it's two two [01:07:27] and a half million going for two and a [01:07:28] half million foreignb born population [01:07:30] even though we know a million a million [01:07:32] um uh legal immigrants have come in 90% [01:07:35] of them colored by the way only about [01:07:37] 10% white. So what we really need is an [01:07:40] immigration moratorum and uh uh I'm [01:07:42] delighted to say that there is a bill uh [01:07:45] proposed by Chip Roy in in in the in the [01:07:47] in the house uh [01:07:50] called call it's called the pause act uh [01:07:53] uh call calling for moratorium and [01:07:56] there's several other very interesting [01:07:57] bills a very good bill on birth right [01:07:59] citizenship and let me see look at my [01:08:00] list here secure the border I mean in [01:08:03] other words they should set in codify [01:08:06] Trump's uh uh uh Trump's activities, [01:08:10] tighten up on the on on the executive [01:08:12] action, tighten up on the on the [01:08:13] southern border because we know that [01:08:14] when the Democrats get in, they'll [01:08:16] reverse it. But they won't be able to do [01:08:18] that if um if if it's if it's in in the [01:08:22] law, they they'll have to pass a law and [01:08:24] have to admit what they're doing. The [01:08:26] problem is that the White House seems to [01:08:28] be is not pushing any of these uh bills [01:08:31] and unless they do, I don't think that [01:08:33] Speaker Johnson is going to raise [01:08:34] anything. he's just going to, you know, [01:08:36] he's just going to lie lie low. Uh, and [01:08:40] I don't know why the White House isn't [01:08:41] pushing these bills. Uh, of course, he's [01:08:43] got his hands full in in uh Minnesota [01:08:46] where they clearly need to declare the [01:08:47] interaction act and that kind of thing. [01:08:49] And it keeps keep going around blowing [01:08:50] up foreign foreign governments and stuff [01:08:52] like that and thinking ships and stuff. [01:08:54] I mean, which it must be very [01:08:55] entertaining, but uh I would really [01:08:57] rather them focus on ending this this um [01:09:02] ending this immigration disaster. uh you [01:09:05] know it's uh whatever it is 34 years now [01:09:08] since I started writing about this in [01:09:10] national review I'm 78 I can't wait much [01:09:13] longer I think they should just get on [01:09:15] with it [01:09:16] >> and you have a number of children who [01:09:17] will inherit the country [01:09:19] >> that's really the point you know people [01:09:21] occasionally uh [01:09:23] yeah uh people say okay I get attacked [01:09:26] all the time for for not being for being [01:09:27] an immigrant my position is you know I'm [01:09:30] an immigrant doing a dirty job that [01:09:31] Americans won't do talk about immig [01:09:34] immigration. But the real reason is I [01:09:35] have children here. My my youngest child [01:09:37] is 10 years old and and and she God [01:09:40] knows what the country's going to be [01:09:41] like by the time she she she know [01:09:44] she's a grown woman. Are you bitter? [01:09:49] Um I've been extremely blessed in my [01:09:52] personal life [01:09:53] uh even though my first wife died. So, [01:09:56] uh [01:09:59] I I don't think uh uh [01:10:04] I I think things could have worked out [01:10:06] differently for me professionally, but [01:10:08] in my personal life, I'm very blessed. [01:10:11] >> You don't seem angry. I mean, cuz what [01:10:13] my read on it is what happened to you is [01:10:16] grotesque and is evil and uh not the [01:10:19] kind of thing I thought would ever be [01:10:21] allowed here. So, so I'm I'm shocked, [01:10:24] always shocked to hear your story. [01:10:25] >> I am I guess I am bitter at the [01:10:28] conservative movement, people in the [01:10:30] conservative movement, people I've known [01:10:31] for for 30 and 40 years who basically [01:10:33] haven't helped us, haven't defended us. [01:10:35] Uh um the most prominent people who have [01:10:38] defended us, Taco, are you and Laura [01:10:41] Loomer, your friend Laura Loomer. [01:10:44] So that that just shows how eimeic we [01:10:46] are. [01:10:50] So Loomer helped you. Oh yeah, she she [01:10:52] she she supported us on on Twitter when [01:10:54] we were good for her [01:10:55] >> when we were trying to raise money for [01:10:56] to defend ourselves and she may have I [01:10:58] have a gift saying go which I just [01:11:00] launched before Christmas frankly to [01:11:02] help us personally because of course [01:11:04] we're now p facing tremendous legal [01:11:06] costs personally and and and uh I [01:11:08] believe she's helped us with that. Have [01:11:10] you received any help from the [01:11:11] Department of Justice? [01:11:13] Um we know that where there are people [01:11:16] in the Department of Justice who are uh [01:11:19] uh on not not directly. Uh on the other [01:11:22] hand, Trump can't stand Leticia James [01:11:25] quite rightly and and they've made [01:11:27] various attempts to bring her to book [01:11:28] for various crimes. For one thing, I [01:11:30] mean, she's clearly guilty of massive [01:11:31] mortgage fraud going back 40 years. But [01:11:34] we know the obverse of lawfare run by [01:11:36] Democrats is joined nullification by [01:11:38] Democrats. uh they've been unable to [01:11:40] indict her because uh because uh [01:11:42] basically because judges keep [01:11:44] disallowing the prosecutors and because [01:11:46] the grand juries won't won't indict um [01:11:49] won't indict Democrats. Uh and so that I [01:11:53] don't know where that's where that [01:11:54] stands. They also have an investigation [01:11:56] into her deprivation of uh Trump's civil [01:11:59] rights in this these scandalous cases [01:12:01] and you know this hush money case and [01:12:03] the the the fraud case and so on which [01:12:05] should never have been allowed to go to [01:12:07] court. the judges should have started, [01:12:08] but of course the judges are on the [01:12:09] other side and a judge is just trying to [01:12:11] get try to strike that down by um by uh [01:12:15] disallowing the prosecutor. I mean [01:12:16] what's happening is these Democrat [01:12:18] senators uh not only have the power to [01:12:22] veto uh judicial appointments, federal [01:12:24] judicial appointments, but they also [01:12:25] have the power apparently to to veto um [01:12:27] prosecutors, federal prosecutors. And [01:12:30] they've they're apparently taking the [01:12:31] position that they won't uh they won't [01:12:34] allow the appointment of a federal [01:12:35] prosecutor if he's likely to prosecute [01:12:37] Leticia James or any other Democrats, [01:12:39] you know, and God knows there are enough [01:12:40] Democrats out there that need [01:12:41] prosecuting. That's how they're [01:12:43] protecting them. Many respects, you [01:12:45] know, we're looking to slow motion civil [01:12:47] war here. I mean, New York in [01:12:49] essentially seceded and Minnesota [01:12:51] essentially seceded from the union. The [01:12:53] the whole legal systems are opposed to [01:12:55] the what the federal government is [01:12:56] doing. Jonathan Turley who is a first [01:12:59] amendment specialist uh wrote recently [01:13:01] that New York is is the land that law [01:13:04] forgot because normal legal norms simply [01:13:07] don't apply there. The um what happens [01:13:09] is what what the Democrat operatives [01:13:11] want. Uh and of course this is not not a [01:13:14] government under law. So if and if fat [01:13:16] New York is and is seceding from from uh [01:13:18] from from the union uh and that's why I [01:13:21] think ultimately we're going to have to [01:13:22] go to Insurrection Act and we're going [01:13:24] to go have to go to wholesale [01:13:25] impeachment of judges. I mean all these [01:13:27] judges brought in by Biden uh I think he [01:13:30] had one or two white men both of whom [01:13:32] were gay something like that all the all [01:13:34] the others are women and people of color [01:13:36] and so on and they deliver the most [01:13:38] extraordinary rulings uh uh disregarding [01:13:41] the plain letter of the law ultimately [01:13:42] it's going to have to be p of the [01:13:44] judicial of the judicial system [01:13:48] Trump when that happens Trump will be [01:13:50] attacked as destroying the third branch [01:13:52] of government um but it's it's it's been [01:13:56] completely destroyed [01:13:57] long before Trump. [01:13:58] >> Right. Right. [01:14:02] >> My last question to you, Peter Berlin, [01:14:04] thank you so much for doing this. Um is [01:14:07] are are you hopeful? [01:14:12] Uh [01:14:14] I have a I have um one of the sayings I [01:14:17] want to remembered for is based on a [01:14:20] talk I gave in about 2015 is that [01:14:22] miracles happen quite often in politics. [01:14:24] >> Yes. I mean, nobody nobody expected the [01:14:26] Soviet Union to collapse. Are you old [01:14:27] enough to remember that? [01:14:28] >> I'm 56. Yeah, I remember it like it was [01:14:31] yesterday. [01:14:31] >> 30 years ago. 30 years ago. Um, I mean, [01:14:35] that's literally true. Nobody nobody [01:14:36] either on the left or the right expect [01:14:38] the Soviet collapse. On the other hand, [01:14:40] uh, uh, you know, I don't think they [01:14:42] expected the Catholic Church to go in [01:14:44] the direction it went in Vatican 2 and [01:14:46] and and and, uh, [01:14:48] and on the third hand, nobody expected [01:14:51] Trump and he has been a miracle. I mean, [01:14:53] he's changed the situation in so many so [01:14:55] many ways. Not all of which I think he [01:14:57] he has probably thought about, but but [01:14:58] he does it anyway. Yes. [01:15:00] >> Uh so I'm hopeful because I think [01:15:02] miracles happen in politics uh [01:15:04] frequently, but we need one. uh the [01:15:07] situation right now we're heading in a [01:15:08] very very bad direction and and and in [01:15:11] the situation with where you know [01:15:14] Democrat politicians are openly calling [01:15:15] on people to to disobey federal law uh [01:15:18] disobey law the prevent ICE from from [01:15:21] deporting illegals [01:15:24] uh [01:15:25] that's more extreme than uh than ever [01:15:28] happened in the south during [01:15:30] desegregation [01:15:31] >> much more it's more extreme than than [01:15:33] what the south did at Fort Sumpter I I [01:15:36] mean this is this is insurrection actual [01:15:38] >> it's insurrection that's right that's [01:15:40] right it's insurrection and and of [01:15:42] course we we candy did use the [01:15:45] interaction act to impose integration [01:15:48] uh uh [01:15:50] >> he sent the 101st airborne to a high [01:15:52] school [01:15:53] >> right right with the total applause from [01:15:56] from the mainstream media which was then [01:15:59] of course completely um oligopolistic I [01:16:02] mean it was dominant at least now we [01:16:04] have we have Twitter even if we are [01:16:06] shadowban on Twitter. [01:16:07] >> Are you still Shadowban? [01:16:08] >> Oh, yeah. Well, as far as we can see, we [01:16:10] are. And Cer, you know, her her um [01:16:13] followership has not risen for like 6 [01:16:16] years. It's been 2.1 million for 6 [01:16:17] years. Doesn't go up, it doesn't go [01:16:19] down. I mean, it's obvious, you can see [01:16:20] from an engagement that there's there's [01:16:22] something there's something very strange [01:16:23] going on. [01:16:25] >> It's all the Indians he has in there. He [01:16:26] hasn't been able to root him how he had [01:16:30] Peter Roma. Thank you very much. Thank [01:16:31] you to